Carbon Fiber Rims

[artsci]

I hate to be the doom master but it's been nearly 3 weeks since we received the notice of production delays and the original end of April delivery date is only a week away. There's still not one iota of evidence that ESE has built a real wheel - not a photo, not a production shot, nothing. But they're still taking orders on their web site and promising what appear to be totally unrealistic delivery dates. Raises a lot of questions for me about this company.

 

[lolachampcar]

I read the production delay as +30 to +60 over the end of April. Is that how others have understood the notice?

I have not received the sample rim for evaluation.
I have adjusted my position.

 

[ElectroFroggy]

Following this Thread closely! Can't wait to see some real world comparison tests of carbon vs. stock wheels when it comes to acceleration, braking and most importantly range!

 

[HyperMiler]

Considering that kinetic energy can be recuperated nearly 100%, why should a lighter wheel save much range (unless you stop by braking hard all the time)?

 

[ElectroFroggy]

Considering that kinetic energy can be recuperated nearly 100%, why should a lighter wheel save much range (unless you stop by braking hard all the time)?

Less mass = Less energy to rotate mass. You can see this when going from 19 inch wheels to 21 inch wheels.

 

[HyperMiler]

Yes but the accelerated wheel mass is momentum you get back unless you use the brakes.

 

[FlatSix911]

Interesting reading .... The Effects of Rotational Inertia on Automotive Acceleration

 

[jerry33]

Yes but the accelerated wheel mass is momentum you get back unless you use the brakes.

You get back some of it. Some of it is converted into heat. It's not a zero sum or even close. It's just better than throwing it all away in the form of heat the way friction brakes do.

 

[lolachampcar]

Easiest way to think of it for me is the difference in daily efficiency between a S85D and a P85D where the only difference when not using the throttle is that you are turning more mass in the rear motor. Wheels are the same in that they represent more rotational inertia.

 

[HyperMiler]

Easiest way to think of it for me is the difference in daily efficiency between a S85D and a P85D where the only difference when not using the throttle is that you are turning more mass in the rear motor. Wheels are the same in that they represent more rotational inertia.

Exactly. Everything else equal (tire width, compound, rest of car) more energy / torque is invested into angular motion of the additional mass, and will become usable as the car coasts to a standstill, meaning it will roll farther until that additional energy is spent. Unless of course, you brake by recuperation or friction, in which case you do spend some or all of the difference in energy by making heat.

So racers will save some with lighter wheels, gliders not so much. Gliders might enjoy the additional comfort of the suspension, though.

 

[Spurkey]

Exactly. Everything else equal (tire width, compound, rest of car) more energy / torque is invested into angular motion of the additional mass, and will become usable as the car coasts to a standstill, meaning it will roll farther until that additional energy is spent. Unless of course, you brake by recuperation or friction, in which case you do spend some or all of the difference in energy by making heat.

So racers will save some with lighter wheels, gliders not so much. Gliders might enjoy the additional comfort of the suspension, though.

It's an imperfect system though, even at speed the car has to provide a small bit of energy to maintain that speed due to various losses. I notice a small range decrease when I switch from my 19" winter rims+tires to my heavier 21" summers, admittedly a tricky comparison due to the different rolling resistances.

There will definitely be an effect on range with CF rims, the million dollar question is just how much (or how little ) the effect is.

 

[Allante]

To those of you who have ordered ESE Carbon wheels, are you planning to modify suspension components to account for the significant decrease in unsprung weight? In C&D's test of the Mustang with CF wheels, this is what Ford had to say:

"“We installed firmer suspension bushings and larger anti-roll bars. Best results were achieved with significantly stiffer springs and additional damping in track mode. We also fine-tuned traction control, ABS, and stability controls. It was significantly more work than we expected, but we achieved major performance dividends, lighter steering effort, even a deeper tone in response to impacts.”

If you are not planning to race your S, are springs, bushings, and anti-roll bars still in need of modification?

 

[Xenoilphobe]

To those of you who have ordered ESE Carbon wheels, are you planning to modify suspension components to account for the significant decrease in unsprung weight? In C&D's test of the Mustang with CF wheels, this is what Ford had to say:

"“We installed firmer suspension bushings and larger anti-roll bars. Best results were achieved with significantly stiffer springs and additional damping in track mode. We also fine-tuned traction control, ABS, and stability controls. It was significantly more work than we expected, but we achieved major performance dividends, lighter steering effort, even a deeper tone in response to impacts.”

If you are not planning to race your S, are springs, bushings, and anti-roll bars still in need of modification?

I'm not tracking my model s. I am more interested in efficiency gains, noise reduction and acceleration gains. I also have a P85+ which as the largest anti roll bars
Tesla provides in a stock Config.

Maybe Tesla can push out a carbon fiber wheel option patch once I get the wheels. ;-)

 

[Allante]

I'm not tracking my model s. I am more interested in efficiency gains, noise reduction and acceleration gains. I also have a P85+ which as the largest anti roll bars
Tesla provides in a stock Config.

Maybe Tesla can push out a carbon fiber wheel option patch once I get the wheels. ;-)

I wonder if the stock P85D suspension will react too quickly and actually result in a bumpier ride. I am a future Model X owner thinking about getting ESE's 22" wheels, but I am concerned that the suspension of both the S and X was not designed for such a light wheel.

In any case, I hope you get yours soon and like everyone else here, am eagerly awaiting your experience with them.

 

[NielsChr]

seems like bmw is soon to make/sell a wheel wich might fit well on our tesla....
BMW M Power World

its not pure carbon, but I guess its worth investigate.

 

[bhzmark]

I wonder if the stock P85D suspension will react too quickly and actually result in a bumpier ride. I am a future Model X owner thinking about getting ESE's 22" wheels, but I am concerned that the suspension of both the S and X was not designed for such a light wheel.

In any case, I hope you get yours soon and like everyone else here, am eagerly awaiting your experience with them.

good point. apparently a lighter wheel does result in bumpier ride -- at least other people complain that it does.

 

[FlatSix911]

seems like bmw is soon to make/sell a wheel wich might fit well on our tesla.... BMW M Power World
its not pure carbon, but I guess its worth investigate.

Interesting reading ... especially because these BMW wheels are the correct size and offset for Tesla.

The options list for the BMW M4 GTS will include M Carbon Compound wheels (front: 9.5 J x 19, rear: 10.5 J x 20), whose innovative material characteristics bring about a significant reduction in unsprung and rotating masses and therefore have a positive effect on the car’s acceleration and deceleration, steering responses and vibration levels.

Designed for the race track yet also approved for road use, this technological showpiece is therefore the world’s first series-produced vehicle that can be fitted with wheels boasting a CFRP/aluminium-composite construction. They enable around seven kilograms to be shaved off the weight of a BMW M4 GTS fitted with the already extraordinarily lightweight forged aluminium wheels specified as standard. Rim wells in exposed carbon also lend the BMW Carbon Compound wheels exclusive visual accents. The wheels are fitted with Michelin Pilot Sport Cup 2 tyres adapted specially for the BMW M4 GTS (front: 265/35 ZR19, rear: 285/30 ZR20).

 

[NielsChr]

The question still stand when and how much the bmw wheels will cost. and if they can deliver...
I expect them to be equally priced as the ESE ? - anyone with a connection to a bmw dealer (in EU) ...

 

[artsci]

Why a hybrid wheel from BMW? Are they not up to making an all carbon wheel? In my book disqualifies them from consideration?

 

[artsci]

I read the production delay as +30 to +60 over the end of April. Is that how others have understood the notice?

I have not received the sample rim for evaluation.
I have adjusted my position.

They announced delays of "up to 60 days on our March and April orders." So the end of April delivery is now delayed until the end of June.