Carpool w/OUT Horrible HOV Stickers

[anxman]

I've been driving for two years in the HOV lane w/out the stickers and haven't had any trouble so far. I refuse to tramp-stamp my car.

My belief is that most cops will see the Tesla and recognize that there should be HOV stickers, and therefore won't look for them. On the flip side, if I were speeding or doing something to justify getting pulled over anyway, then I think I could get fined for not having the stickers.

 

[MichealW]

I've been driving for two years in the HOV lane w/out the stickers and haven't had any trouble so far. I refuse to tramp-stamp my car.

My belief is that most cops will see the Tesla and recognize that there should be HOV stickers, and therefore won't look for them. On the flip side, if I were speeding or doing something to justify getting pulled over anyway, then I think I could get fined for not having the stickers.

Bingo! My thoughts as well... My one sticker has given me not one problem in 3 years...

 

[cwerdna]

You don't have to drive with a front plate in CA.

Just like you don't "have" to drive with any plate in CA.

Per Vehicle Registration and Title Information "California law requires vehicles to display a front and rear license plate, California Vehicle Code (CVC) § 5200."

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Everyone seems to say you MIGHT get pulled over but no one seems to have a legit story of this ever happening. I will continue to travel with no front plate and my HOV stickers in my glove until proven wrong.

If I'm the guy it happens to then hey, I'll be the first one to jump on here and report it.

A quick Google search turned up these:
Q: Does CHP write tickets for not displaying carpool sticker? A: **** YES | Forums | Tesla Motors from 2013.
California: HOV pending, has anyone used HOV lane w/o stickers been pulled over? - Page 2

I agree the stickers are ugly, but they're on my Leaf (and my former leased one too). Consider it the (unfortunate) price of admission. If you choose not to apply them in some way and drive solo in HOV lanes, well... better not whine about the fine. (My Prius still has the useless long expired yellow HOV stickers on it, as well.)

 

[calisnow]

My cars certainly don't wear front plates - and I've gotten one ticket in 10 years for that offense. Had it temporarily affixed for the inspection - then came off right away. And my Tesla won't be wearing any HOV stickers. If I get a ticket - oh well. Better than an ugly sticker on my $100K car.

 

[CuriousG]

I hate to be the first person in your life to break this to you but you are not special, you are not entitled, there are rules, you are required to follow them. So follow them.

I cringed reading your post, do you honestly think you are somehow exempt from the rules because your special (or at least you think you are)?

This behavior and attitude really has no place in civilized society and while I already know my post is going to go through one eye and out the other with you, I highly encourage you to check your entitled attitude and come join the rest of the grown ups in the real world.

Yikes...

Jeff

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I think we ended up with the stickers in CA because changing plates here isn't nearly as easy as "de-validating" the stickers as the current privileges end in 2019 IIRC. Assuming the legislature doesn't extend the deadline any further, Jan 1 2020, the carpool stickers will no longer be valid for single occupant HOV lane access. Much easier to remove a sticker than go through the process of changing license plates as in CA the plates stay with the car.

It's important to note in CA there are two tiers of HOV lane access, one for pure BEVs\Natural Gas (they are white) and one for plug-in BEVs like the Volt (they are green). I think dedicated plates would make that distinction harder but maybe I'm wrong on that one.

Jeff

Or that everyone will know the plates aren't valid anymore and just leave the plates on anyway. Why would you remove a perfectly good plate it isn't like your license has changed? It isn't a handicap plate. You think people are ripping off their yellow stickers after that program ended? In this sense, it is easier to just leave a plate on than to attempt to scrape off 4 stickers and damage your car or even heat it up for removal. Even if you are forced to replace your plate, I think removing two screws is much easier than removing those stickers.

 

[Blastphemy]

The small one must go on the bumper. The large ones have to go on the quarter panels. It's in the DMV instructions.

And yet the actual DMV instructions received with the stickers completely contradict your assertion.

And mixed in there are people sticking them on removable wrap or vinyl stickons (I believe that is also illegal, but could not find the reference where I previously saw that)

The Civil Code doesn't require permanent installation, so it's not illegal. But it is stupid, since it makes them very easy to steal.

 

[jeffro01]

The level of entitlement in this thread is really quite sickening and an embarrassment to responsible and law abiding owners. I reiterate, you are not special, you are not above the law, you do not get to exempt yourself from the law because you feel you're special or the law somehow doesn't apply to you. I especially love the "well I've been doing this for years and never been caught so I'm going to keep doing it" type comments. Just makes you wonder what other laws some people are ignoring because they don't feel like they should, or that they apply to them.

I don't care what you think of the aesthetic nature of the stickers, put them on your car or get out of the HOV lane. It's the law and unless I missed something, Tesla's are not exempt from the law. I simply cannot understand what is so difficult about this.

In the Bay Area at least, most of the carpool lanes have become useless due to single occupant violators and the explosion of the green\white HOV stickers. I believe the fines should be quadrupled, if not increased by a higher factor, to snag single-occupant cheaters and people who refuse to follow the law in regards to their HOV stickers. The only way to get it through some people's heads that they are not above the law is to hit you in the pocket book, hard.

It's ridiculous that in civilized society adults have to be reminded they are not above the law.

Jeff

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Or that everyone will know the plates aren't valid anymore and just leave the plates on anyway. Why would you remove a perfectly good plate it isn't like your license has changed? It isn't a handicap plate. You think people are ripping off their yellow stickers after that program ended? In this sense, it is easier to just leave a plate on than to attempt to scrape off 4 stickers and damage your car or even heat it up for removal. Even if you are forced to replace your plate, I think removing two screws is much easier than removing those stickers.

Fair enough.

Jeff

 

[liuping]

Just makes you wonder what other laws some people are ignoring because they don't feel like they should, or that they apply to them.

*cough* speed limits *cough*

If you want non car related example. in several states (Massachusetts, Virginia, Georgia, Idaho, Mississippi, North Carolina, Utah and South Carolina) premarital sex is still illegal. In fact, in many state all sorts of things people do in the bedroom are still on the books as illegal, but are generally ignored.

n the Bay Area at least, most of the carpool lanes have become useless due to single occupant violators and the explosion of the green\white HOV stickers

You seem to be mad at all the people there legally with their stickers.

I have a sticker on my car, and I'm compiling with the intent of the law. That's good enough for me.

Just as I drive at a safe speed with the flow of traffic, even though the flow is faster than the speed limit. The intent of speed limits if to improve safety. Driving slow to comply with the posted limit follows the letter, but not the intent of the law.

 

[jeffro01]

You seem to be mad at all the people there legally with their stickers.

Nope, not at all, it was a general observation. Now, I am peeved at all of the single occupant cheats I see... Different situation entirely.

Jeff

 

[jak]

The level of entitlement in this thread is really quite sickening and an embarrassment to responsible and law abiding owners.

I agree. Some people like to have their cake and eat it, too. Just be prepared to eat your ticket, too, if you get one.

 

[Mike K]

The level of entitlement in this thread is really quite sickening and an embarrassment to responsible and law abiding owners. I reiterate, you are not special, you are not above the law, you do not get to exempt yourself from the law because you feel you're special or the law somehow doesn't apply to you. I especially love the "well I've been doing this for years and never been caught so I'm going to keep doing it" type comments. Just makes you wonder what other laws some people are ignoring because they don't feel like they should, or that they apply to them.

I'm not so sure it's a sense of entitlement so much as an understanding of the risks their taking and the knowledge that enforcement is really lax (at least in SoCal). I can't speak for other parts of California but where I live (Hollywood Hills) you'd basically need to be waving a gun out of your window to get pulled over and even then it's not a sure thing. LAPD has so much more important stuff to be dealing with than traffic enforcement. This is the same reason it's the norm for 19 cars to roll through every hard red.

When I got my A8 there was an issue getting the title and I drove around with no plate (dealer or otherwise) for 6 or 7 months. I would pull up next to police and be followed by police and nobody so much as blinked an eye. I think one time during that period an LAPD officer next to me at a light pulled up and took a peak to make sure I had the paper taped in the front windshield but at that point it was so sun bleached that there was no ink on it. It was a blank strip of paper but he didn't really care or didn't notice because it wasn't important enough.

I've had my car for two months. I stuck my old expired Illinois plate on it (actually just registered it today) , have no front plate and the HOV stickers are parked in the glove box. If tomorrow I get pulled over and an officer writes me a ticket for not having a plate or not having the stickers on the car I'll suck it up because that's the risk I chose to take.

 

[CuriousG]

Nope, not at all, it was a general observation. Now, I am peeved at all of the single occupant cheats I see... Different situation entirely.

Jeff

I can understand if you continually see ICE cars in the HOV lane but to generalize all the single occupant cheats you see. It's an $8 sticker that's issued unlimited for pure EV vehicles. So I would certainly think that people that can qualify for white stickers would certainly ante up the $8 for HOV access. Whether they choose to display them legally for whatever reason is up to that person and the repercussions they may face.

I'd hate to say it but you sound pretty butthurt being in the bay area where traffic is abysmal. By your standard, anyone going over a mile over the speed limit you'll be cursing them out or not signaling before changing lanes since it is the law. Most people know Teslas are pure electric and by definition should be allowed in the HOV lane assuming they paid for their stickers.

While you're at it, why not go after the people who still talk on their phones in hand while driving. Or people with expired tags.

 

[slevit1md]

I don't live in CA, so it doesn't affect me at all. But why would anyone say that EVs shouldn't be in the HOV lanes? The whole purpose of them was to encourage carpooling to cut down on vehicle emissions. If you drive a car without emissions, makes sense that you should be able to use those lanes. And while there's an argument to be made that if you want to use the lanes, you should just put the stickers on, CA really does seem to have gone overboard with those stickers! They're large and way too conspicuous. There's no reasons they need to stick several large bright stickers all over the vehicle. A license plate would do the job just fine and I'm sure people would be willing to pay a bit more for it. Those stickers make the car look like a state vehicle, or advertisement. I agree with others here that I'd use the lane and at best, would find a way to temporarily attach them.

 

[AudubonB]

... But why would anyone say that EVs shouldn't be in the HOV lanes? The whole purpose of them was to encourage carpooling to cut down on vehicle emissions. If you drive a car without emissions, makes sense that you should be able to use those lanes.

The fatal fault with your argument is that no emissions have been reduced, as follows:

1. Were there just two commuters sharing a single ICE, then what had been 2 cars' worth of emissions now is 1 ICE-worth of emissions ("1I").

2. Were those two commuters now each driving their own vehicles, one ICE and one EV, then emissions remain at 1I. No change in emissions whatsoever.

3. Were commuters truly to carpool - and when HOV lanes first appeared throughout the US, many and perhaps most states mandated at least three occupants - then total emissions would be dropping even further.

 

[bonnie]

T

3. Were commuters truly to carpool - and when HOV lanes first appeared throughout the US, many and perhaps most states mandated at least three occupants - then total emissions would be dropping even further.

Indeed. In parts of the Bay area, three occupants are required for HOV access (or HOV lane sticker).

 

[eyespii]

The fatal fault with your argument is that no emissions have been reduced, as follows:

1. Were there just two commuters sharing a single ICE, then what had been 2 cars' worth of emissions now is 1 ICE-worth of emissions ("1I").

2. Were those two commuters now each driving their own vehicles, one ICE and one EV, then emissions remain at 1I. No change in emissions whatsoever.

3. Were commuters truly to carpool - and when HOV lanes first appeared throughout the US, many and perhaps most states mandated at least three occupants - then total emissions would be dropping even further.

But if those two commuters each drove an ICE, emissions would be at 2I. Thus, when one of those drivers swaps their ICE for an EV, you save 1I in emissions. I don't think the internal calculus for most people (at least here anyway) is whether to carpool or to drive an EV - it's whether to drive an ICE to work or a slightly more expensive EV and get to use the carpool lane. The whole point of the sticker program is to encourage adoption of PHEVs and BEVs to reduce emissions, because getting people to buy an EV is more realistic for some than trying to arrange a carpool to work.

 

[Caligula]

Poem Fix :15 Item Limit

 

[green1]

I don't live in CA, so it doesn't affect me at all. But why would anyone say that EVs shouldn't be in the HOV lanes? The whole purpose of them was to encourage carpooling to cut down on vehicle emissions.

Funny, I thought HOV lanes were designed to reduce CONGESTION.

Allowing EVs was just a way to try to drive EV adoption, not because it had anything to do with the goal of the lanes themselves.

 

[Caligula]

Funny, I thought HOV lanes were designed to reduce CONGESTION.

Allowing EVs was just a way to try to drive EV adoption, not because it had anything to do with the goal of the lanes themselves.

Ding ding ding
What's an HOV lane?

 

[siucity]

Exactly. The problem with HOV lanes though is it's very difficult to enforce the requirements. The fines aren't nearly high enough and I see plenty of cops all of the time simply just pushing people out of the HOV lane who don't belong (motorcycle cops like to ride up next to you and then basically hand gesture you out of the lane) but then ride on past. What does that driver do? As soon as the cop is out of view it's right back in. The lack of enforcement is a huge issue but given the constrained budget that CHP has, it is what it is. They are so far short of needed officers that stopping every carpool cheat they see would be counter productive. I get that. It'd be nice if people could just be trusted to follow the rules but nope, there's always that group of people who think the rules don't apply to them or that it's not fair, or whatever. Some are posting in this very thread...

I commute on 80 and I've never seen a cop simply signal someone to move over without pulling the car over. The fines aren't cheap, and I honestly think if they focus on carpool cheats (on 80 at least) a couple of days a week, they would generate a lot of revenue.