"Cash for Clunkers"

[TEG]

Congress And Its Cash For Clunkers Bill - Behind the Wheel - Phil Lebeau - CNBC.com

 

[graham]

From TEGs linked article:

• The car you are buying can not cost more than $45,000

Rats...

 

[dpeilow]

http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsArticle/AllCars/238758/
UK to get 'pay to scrap' scheme

 

[dpeilow]

Now the US may get one: CARS Act revives "Cash for Clunkers" scrapping plan in U.S.

 

[graham]

From dpeilow's linked article:

This bill would offer consumers up to $5,000 to trade in a vehicle that's at least 8 years old in exchange for a new one built in the United States that gets at least 27 mpg if it's a car or 24 mpg if it's a truck or SUV. The total payout would be based on the new vehicle's mileage rating.

I hope that this will include vehicles which use no gas at all... Is MPGe the same as MPG in this case?

 

[Kevin Harney]

That will work for me if it is still around when I get my Model S.

 

[Tdave]

Hmm, can I buy a $300 8-year old car just to use as a trade in?

 

[mt2]

That will work for me if it is still around when I get my Model S.

Hmm, my Saturn will be eight years old when the Model S is available. I was concerned about the trade-in value and eventually discarded it when figuring the cost of the Model S. I figured it would be worth whatever it's worth regardless of the vehicle I replace it with. But this changes the equation, perhaps substantially.

If, as you point out, it's still around.

 

[TEG]

The Latest Bad Idea: Government Sponsored Vouchers for Car Purchases -- Seeking Alpha

 

[Takumi]

Hmm, can I buy a $300 8-year old car just to use as a trade in?

I don't see why not. The purpose of the program is to get rid of older cars.

What I want to know if these government programs are stackable. Can you get the hybrid/EV rebate stacked on this?

 

[mt2]

I don't see why not. The purpose of the program is to get rid of older cars.

What I want to know if these government programs are stackable. Can you get the hybrid/EV rebate stacked on this?

I don't see why not. The trade-in program is targeted at your old vehicle while the $7,500 rebate is targeted at your new vehicle. Two completely different programs.

 

[dpeilow]

Does the "Cash for Clunkers" bill have a landfill-stuffing downside?

The "emissions of making the new car vs. the savings when compared to the old one on the road" argument.

 

[bobw]

I don't see why not. The trade-in program is targeted at your old vehicle while the $7,500 rebate is targeted at your new vehicle. Two completely different programs.

Ah, but your forget our Gotcha Government! Buried somewhere deep in the bill, probably inserted at the last moment in the dead of night (for plausible deniability) by some low level staffer is a clause invalidating both unless you are a campaign contributor or sleeping with a Congressman.

I wanted to make that paragraph tongue-in-cheek, but I can't, somehow.

 

[vfx]

Fox Business reports that those clunkers will clog our landfills.

'Cash for Clunkers' Promises to Expand Landfills - FOXBusiness.com

Aaron Lowe, vice president of government affairs for the Automotive Aftermarket Industry Association (AAIA: undefined, undefined, undefined%).

"Proponents of the Cash for Clunkers bill say that it will benefit the environment because it will take older cars off the road, replacing them with new, more fuel efficient vehicles," said Lowe. "However, there is an inherent problem associated with this theory. What will become of all these old cars? The answer you don't hear from the backers of Cash for Clunkers is that these scrapped vehicles will more than likely be sent to landfills, creating more pollution, not less."

Really.
Does any uneducated person not know about crushing, grinding, and melting of cars?

I'd like to see a picture of one of these "car landfills".

edit to add:

Besides, where would these cars end up anyway?

 

[DAL]

Cash for Clunkers

So, it appears that Congress snuck the “Cash for Clunkers” program into today's $106B War-related Emergency Supplemental (91-5 Senate, 226-202 House).

The interesting thing about the program is that it allows for a $4,500 voucher if the mileage of the new car is 10 mpg higher than the old car. I'm pretty sure this would apply to any ICE to BEV trade-in, but what really interests me is that this is only $500 less than the Model S down payment. So, as the details emerge (it sounds like this is supposed to be a 12-month plan), the main question to be answered is whether or not a down-payment on a Tesla Model S will qualify. According to Thomas.gov, it sounds promising:
- Dealers must accept voucher as "payment or down payment" for a fuel-efficient vehicle
- Voucher can be used in concert with other vouchers for fuel efficiency (so the $7,500 federal tax credit still applies)
- Voucher must be used by March 31, 2010
- Dealers must be certified in order to participate
- Dealers must arrange to destroy the trade-ins

For those of you who remember "Who Killed the Electric Car," what better publicity than Tesla accepting these trade-ins, then televising the destruction of vehicles traded in for theirs. . . .

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
Congress Sends $106B War-Spending Bill To Obama : NPRSenate Passes "Cash for Clunkers" Program- Yahoo! Autos Article Page

 

[Tdave]

Program was scaled back to only last 3.5 months, not 12. And I think I remember reading that the clunker can only get 18 mpg or worse. You also need to prove you've owned the vehicle for a certain amount of time, so no going out to buy the clunker to trade in.

 

[Arnold Panz]

Don't you have to turn the clunker in at some point? I think the point is to get the "clunkers" off the road in 2010, which would leave these people without a car for 2 years assuming they turn in their clunkers to Tesla in exchange for a voucher to use on the down payment on the Tesla.

 

[DAL]

Clunkers Update

Here are more details; it appears that the current $1B set-aside expires when used up or at the latest in November. There is some buzz from Democratic members of Congress that the current bill does not go far enough and they may try to extend the program.

TDave, you're right about the 18mpg or worse requirement, but please note that requirement is combined mpg (hwy and city). Most medium-sized vehicles on the road today fall into that range. To confirm, you can visit:
Fuel Economy
I'm pretty sure you'd have to surrender the vehicle (and therefore, potentially have to wait 2 yrs for a replacement); however, the bill did not specify.

Finally, the most disheartening news reported on the program today is that the max price of the new vehicle can only be $45K (what kind of silly requirement is this, anyway)?

Cash for Clunkers Car Buying Stimulus Bill- Yahoo! Autos Article Page

Bottom line: it seems like this program is perfect for TM, but additional effort might be required by Congress to make it fit exactly.

 

[Takumi]

Does anyone know if there are any cars eligible for BOTH both the $7,500 and $4,500 rebate?

 

[TEG]

I'd like to see a picture of one of these "car landfills".

Being parted out before crushing:

Squished for the chopper:

Shredded into easy to melt pieces:

The metals are worth too much to let them just rust away. Cars get recycled.

Used tires, on the other hand, are more of a problem:

They tend to mass up on old farms turned into tire dumps until one day a mysterious fire burns them all up...