Caution - Annual Service - Car power-down - GPS issue

[hcsharp]

I've got the cable. I have tried updating my firmware again with no luck. I first tried in November but ran into countless problems. I'm having the same issues I had the first time I tried.

I can connect to the GPS module just fine, or at least it appears that way. I can view the NMEA transmitted sentences and confirm that I have model 18x running firmware ver 3.20. So far so good.

When I try to update the firmware it asks me for the two file locations which I select without any problems. They are located in multiple directories including the default. After selecting the files it immediately disconnects. No update takes place. I have to power cycle the GPS (easily done by unplugging the USB cable that's powering it) and restart SNSRXCFG_330 software in order to reconnect.

I've tried running Updater.exe directly from a cmd line but it gives a communications error. That is probably because it only allows a baud rate as low as 9600. It even says there's a framing error. If you choose auto-detect it still throws a comm error.

Anybody have any suggestions before I pass the cable on to the next person?

 

[slcasner]

Henry, sorry to hear that even with this new version of my cable there are similar symptoms.

I believe the software update can proceed at 9600 baud or faster (perhaps even up to 115K), versus the operational phase that must be at 4800. So I don't think the fact that 4800 does not appear is the answer.

Some have reported that on Windows 10 you need to run as admin. Might that apply here? Except that "framing error" does not sound like the expected consequence of insufficient privileges unless admin is required to change port settings.

The other thought is that perhaps the driver for the USB serial adapter is not up-to-snuff. But version 1 of my cable (that you tried in November) used the FTDI chip and this one is PL2303, so that means it's not the same driver anyway.

This cable has at least 5 successful updates in its record, so the basic idea is sound. I don't know could be different about your car. Or maybe clean air in Vermont?

 

[Panicopticon]

I've got the cable. I have tried updating my firmware again with no luck. I first tried in November but ran into countless problems. I'm having the same issues I had the first time I tried.

I can connect to the GPS module just fine, or at least it appears that way. I can view the NMEA transmitted sentences and confirm that I have model 18x running firmware ver 3.20. So far so good.

When I try to update the firmware it asks me for the two file locations which I select without any problems. They are located in multiple directories including the default. After selecting the files it immediately disconnects. No update takes place. I have to power cycle the GPS (easily done by unplugging the USB cable that's powering it) and restart SNSRXCFG_330 software in order to reconnect.

I've tried running Updater.exe directly from a cmd line but it gives a communications error. That is probably because it only allows a baud rate as low as 9600. It even says there's a framing error. If you choose auto-detect it still throws a comm error.

Anybody have any suggestions before I pass the cable on to the next person?

Let me do some testing with the spare unit I have, I'll update later tonight. What I believe should happen is:

1. SNSRXCFG_330 connects at 4800
2. Commands the unit into update mode
3. Requests the location of the update
4. Requests the location of the update app
5. Starts the update app with the update file as a parameter
6. Connects at 115200, sends the update

If you're on Windows I might consider grabbing PortMon from the Sysinternals suite and trying to watch the updater do its thing (My recollection is PortMon support ended with Windows XP or possibly Win7 32bit? Though there are certainly other serial port monitoring apps).. That should dump the port configuration, any changes made to that, and the data being transferred.

If you want I can ship you my cable to try..?

 

[Panicopticon]

Yup. I've more or less confirmed the above with Portmon.

The command that swaps it into update mode appears to be "$PGRMO,,G" (transaction 2459), after that the system swaps into what looks like Garmin's binary protocol. Some traffic goes back and forth, and then it up bauds to 115200 (TR# 2925), shortly there after it starts pushing the update with some mild framing (TR# 3519).

I've attached the log if anyone is curious. The Portmon logging format leaves something to be desired, but its free. I did the update on my spare 18x LVC, using a TTL FTDI cable with inversion configured on. This is using SNSRXCFG 3.30 and FW 4.40.

 

[hcsharp]

Let me do some testing with the spare unit I have, I'll update later tonight. What I believe should happen is:

1. SNSRXCFG_330 connects at 4800
2. Commands the unit into update mode
3. Requests the location of the update
4. Requests the location of the update app
5. Starts the update app with the update file as a parameter
6. Connects at 115200, sends the update

If you're on Windows I might consider grabbing PortMon from the Sysinternals suite and trying to watch the updater do its thing (My recollection is PortMon support ended with Windows XP or possibly Win7 32bit? Though there are certainly other serial port monitoring apps).. That should dump the port configuration, any changes made to that, and the data being transferred.

If you want I can ship you my cable to try..?

That's the sequence I followed and it works until it tries to connect (step 6) at which time it fails every time. I've tried running updater app from the command line at every baud rate possible. I remember using portmon years ago. I'll see if there's anything like that with Win 10.

 

[hcsharp]

Thanks @Panicopticon for offering your cable but I've almost got one ready to go here. I'm using a USB to serial and supplying a separate power supply. I want to open the wheel well anyway because I'm starting to suspect the connector.

 

[Panicopticon]

Thanks @Panicopticon for offering your cable but I've almost got one ready to go here. I'm using a USB to serial and supplying a separate power supply. I want to open the wheel well anyway because I'm starting to suspect the connector.

You can also cheat and run the updater in an XP VM with the serial port passed through, which is what I did to grab that log from PortMon. I definitely had some weirdness under W10 if I didn't run SNSRXCFG_330 as Admin.

I tested again to be sure, if you don't run SNSRXCFG_330 as admin update.exe will fail to launch on W10 (Likely anything Vista or newer) due to Installer Detection.

The update app by itself does not configure the GPS into update mode, SNSRXCFG_330 does this when you ask for update mode (see my capture from earlier). That said, if you didnt start SNSRXCFG_330 and ask for update mode. Let it do its thing, close the app, and manually launch update it will work.

 

[jason.tv]

Thanks @Panicopticon for offering your cable but I've almost got one ready to go here. I'm using a USB to serial and supplying a separate power supply. I want to open the wheel well anyway because I'm starting to suspect the connector.

your connector? you are clearly reading fw 3.20 in garmin NMEA transmitted sentences so it connected to your vms.

 

[hcsharp]

I got it to work! I'm updated to firmware ver 4.40. Happiness

I tested again to be sure, if you don't run SNSRXCFG_330 as admin update.exe will fail to launch on W10 (Likely anything Vista or newer) due to Installer Detection.

OK, this was the problem. I didn't think it was because it wouldn't work on an old XP laptop either. Further, I thought I was already running as admin because I'm a user with admin privileges. I've been hosed yet again by Microsoft.

Recommending a change to the instructions... At least for people who are easily flummoxed by Microsoft.

 

[Mark77a]

I got it to work! I'm updated to firmware ver 4.40. Happiness

OK, this was the problem. I didn't think it was because it wouldn't work on an old XP laptop either. Further, I thought I was already running as admin because I'm a user with admin privileges. I've been hosed yet again by Microsoft.

Recommending a change to the instructions... At least for people who are easily flummoxed by Microsoft.

Glad if finally worked for you - its so satisfying to see that file loading >green line>

Likewise here in the UK, there is a cable kindly made up by a generous savvy owner, and it was my win7 that was the issue - rebooted to Win10 and all worked as expected ... 1st attempt on my car took 1+ hours . Figuring out how to push thick wire bundle back away from the connector took 3/4 !! But, by the time we'd finished 2 cars I think it could have been done in 10mins !! (It helped that @dpeilow is a genuine satellite expert and versed in the ancient art of DOS )

 

[Panicopticon]

I got it to work! I'm updated to firmware ver 4.40. Happiness


OK, this was the problem. I didn't think it was because it wouldn't work on an old XP laptop either. Further, I thought I was already running as admin because I'm a user with admin privileges. I've been hosed yet again by Microsoft.

Recommending a change to the instructions... At least for people who are easily flummoxed by Microsoft.

Happy I could help, glad it worked out for you.

Not that I think anyone particularly cares, but there are three ways to deal with the problem:

1. Right click on SNSRXCFG_330 and select "Run as Administrator" (have to do this every time)
2. Right click on SNSRXCFG_330, select Properties, select the Compatibility Tab, check the "Run as an Administrator" box (alternatively, you can change this setting for all users). One and done.
   
3. Embed a program manifest (xml) as a program resource to the update.exe app with "runasinvoker" set. If Garmin did this the problem would be solved (ref1, ref2). The real fix. This is easy to do (I could make an "fixed" updater this way in a few minutes, but I don't want to be responsible for maintaining it or any badness someone might encounter.)

There are other approaches as well, add a .manifest file, manually edit the compatibility matrix, but really properly done 3 is what fixes it. The updater doesn't need to run as admin, AFAIK Windows doesn't restrict access to the com ports.

 

[einhalv]

I successfully made a cable and updated my GPS yesterday based on the information in this thread, in particular the postings of @slcasner. I split my cable in two parts: a USB-to-RS232-with-power cable and a roadster-specific cable:

If anyone wants to borrow it, that is possible. Those nearby (Oslo-fjord area) may even consider picking it up at my place. Otherwise, I can send. Of course, it comes without any guarantees of suitability for any purpose.

In this thread, there has been some discussion on the pros and cons of connecting to the VMS cable or connecting directly to the GPS. I have no strong opinions on the matter, but obviously opted for the first alternative. A major challenge was the difficult access and my worries about breaking something, such as the clip securing the connector. I found that using a nail as a lever, a *very gentle* force is sufficient to lift the clip even though some firmness is needed in pulling the plug itself. Here is a demonstration on a plug (not in the car):

 

[slcasner]

I successfully made a cable and updated my GPS yesterday based on the information in this thread, in particular the postings of @slcasner. I split my cable in two parts: a USB-to-RS232-with-power cable and a roadster-specific cable:

Interesting -- so I gather that you put the +5V power on one of the DE-9 pins to go from the first box to the second box?

 

[einhalv]

Interesting -- so I gather that you put the +5V power on one of the DE-9 pins to go from the first box to the second box?

Yes, I put it on pin 1. It isn't standard, but I think there is some precedence. The FTDI cable that I bought ended in wires with TTL-serial (RD,TD,RTS#,CTS#), GND and 5V/450mA power. Except for tapping a little bit of power to a level-shifter in the box, I routed the power directly to the pin on the DE-9 connector.

I had originally put it on pin 9 since I believe it is very rarely used, but I changed to pin 1 when I realized that the cable that I procured for the second box didn't even have a wire for pin 9.

 

[drewski]

Thanks to @slcasner for helping me update the GPS firmware on 1038!

He also did the brake indicator LED mod, while I broke the tabs on my interior light casing

On a scary note, that I'll put up a separate post on, after charging I see the 100 mi round trip dropped my CAC by 2+ points from. 146.2-4 to 143.9 . . . when I got 1038 about 1k miles ago the CAC was 150.9

 

[ShawnA]

Hi @einhalv,

I like your idea of using a nail or some type of lever to release the latch on the plug from the VMS.

I am sure on the bench this would be an easy job,
Laying on the stomach with questionable eyesight, reaching out to the connector,
and having weaker fingers makes it a comedy or tragedy...

Shawn

 

[drewski]

Hi @einhalv,

I like your idea of using a nail or some type of lever to release the latch on the plug from the VMS.

I am sure on the bench this would be an easy job,
Laying on the stomach with questionable eyesight, reaching out to the connector,
and having weaker fingers makes it a comedy or tragedy...

Shawn

i used a small screwdriver to release the latch.

i went in from the side of the latch (coming from the top of einhalv's picture vs. the right side where the nail is coming from) on the end closer to the VMS. just a slight twist is all that's needed.

it does take some wrist contortions, if you're on your side like i was

 

[einhalv]

Hi @einhalv,

I like your idea of using a nail or some type of lever to release the latch on the plug from the VMS.

I am sure on the bench this would be an easy job,
Laying on the stomach with questionable eyesight, reaching out to the connector,
and having weaker fingers makes it a comedy or tragedy...

Shawn

i used a small screwdriver to release the latch.

i went in from the side of the latch (coming from the top of einhalv's picture vs. the right side where the nail is coming from) on the end closer to the VMS. just a slight twist is all that's needed.

it does take some wrist contortions, if you're on your side like i was

I experimented on the bench first, but I did use it in the car. Since the nail goes under the bail and *into* the lever of the latch there is a lot of tolerance with respect to it sliding. Hence, I could do it all with one hand: one finger on the nail (not the thumb as in the picture), the others gripping the plug. It is sufficient with only a very slight pressure on the nail and probably harmful with much.

I avoided tragedy, but I am sure that among an audience, had there been any present, the general opinion would be that they witnessed great comedy. Getting a relatively low-aspect-ratio body into the footwell in a working position is no easy task. I opted for leaning into the car down on the sill twisting sideways almost onto the back, but perhaps @jason.tv's approach is worth a try next time: New Roadster owner

 

[jason.tv]

I experimented on the bench first, but I did use it in the car. Since the nail goes under the bail and *into* the lever of the latch there is a lot of tolerance with respect to it sliding. Hence, I could do it all with one hand: one finger on the nail (not the thumb as in the picture), the others gripping the plug. It is sufficient with only a very slight pressure on the nail and probably harmful with much.

I avoided tragedy, but I am sure that among an audience, had there been any present, the general opinion would be that they witnessed great comedy. Getting a relatively low-aspect-ratio body into the footwell in a working position is no easy task. I opted for leaning into the car down on the sill twisting sideways almost onto the back, but perhaps @jason.tv's approach is worth a try next time: New Roadster owner

You can get stuck in this position when your arms and elbows are tucked inside the foot well haha

 

[drewski]

I experimented on the bench first, but I did use it in the car. Since the nail goes under the bail and *into* the lever of the latch there is a lot of tolerance with respect to it sliding. Hence, I could do it all with one hand: one finger on the nail (not the thumb as in the picture), the others gripping the plug. It is sufficient with only a very slight pressure on the nail and probably harmful with much.

I avoided tragedy, but I am sure that among an audience, had there been any present, the general opinion would be that they witnessed great comedy. Getting a relatively low-aspect-ratio body into the footwell in a working position is no easy task. I opted for leaning into the car down on the sill twisting sideways almost onto the back, but perhaps @jason.tv's approach is worth a try next time: New Roadster owner

sliding tolerance is a good thing, though i tried your method first and couldn't get the latch and enough grip strength to remove the plug.

if i do it again, i'll try jason.tv's inverted approach!