CCS Adapter for North America

[srs5694]

The Chademo adapter is out of stock and I choose to believe that this indicates that they are about to announce the CCS adapter. Feeling optimistic for no real reason.

Products, including the CHAdeMO adapter, go out of stock frequently on Tesla's site. Typically, items marked as out of stock return to in-stock status fairly quickly. Don't read more into an out-of-stock status than that.

Also, even if Tesla were to announce a CCS adapter tomorrow, chances are they'd continue to make and sell the CHAdeMO adapter. If nothing else, it's highly desirable for the Japanese market, where CHAdeMO is the dominant DC fast charging standard. Thus, I wouldn't expect release of a CCS adapter to be heralded by an out-of-stock status on the CHAdeMO adapter.

 

[Saghost]

I also would like to get a CCS Adaptor.

What is the chances of getting one in 2020 ?

No one here (or anywhere else outside a Tesla NDA) has any information on that.

Tesla has solved the technical problem for the EU cars, so making a US adapter would be a straight forward proposition, requiring little time and effort. Because of that, I think it will happen at some point, but that’s just me reading the market and guessing...

 

[srs5694]

Tesla has solved the technical problem for the EU cars, so making a US adapter would be a straight forward proposition, requiring little time and effort. Because of that, I think it will happen at some point, but that’s just me reading the market and guessing...

This assumes that the US and EU cars have identical DC fast charging circuitry in the cars. It's conceivable that the EU Model 3s, and retrofitted Model Ss and Xs, have hardware that was designed for CCS, whereas the US-spec vehicles have something entirely different. If this is the case, then US cars will need either a much more elaborate adapter, similar to the CHAdeMO adapter; or hardware changes, similar to older Model S and X vehicles in Europe, to work with a simple adapter. Note that I'm not saying this is definitely, or even probably, the case. It could as easily be the case that the Model 3, at least, was designed from the start to be as similar as possible across all markets, including its DC fast charging hardware, except of course for the charge port socket. Ultimately, most readers of this forum are just guessing about this. (I suppose somebody "in the know" at Tesla might be reading this thread, but chances are they can't chime in.)

 

[ivan801]

I hope CCS adapter comes out soon... One of the main reasons why I like Tesla is because it allows me to charge it just about anywhere from just about anything. I also own two LEAFs, and the difference in charging options between the two is significant. One basic example is 5-20 adapter that no one else offers. Seriously, how hard would it be? And it is such an improvement over 5-15.

Except for money, there is no reason not to own all of the available adapters. I purchased CHAdeMO adapter, and will gladly buy CCS. Sure, you can get by without it, but it just opens up more options, and more options is always better when it comes to charging.

 

[israndy]

CHAdeMO adapters are back in stock, mine just arrived today. With any luck, I can use the crap out of it this next month so that when the CCS combo adapter arrives next year I won't have wasted all this money.

 

[vdiv]

No one here (or anywhere else outside a Tesla NDA) has any information on that.

Tesla has solved the technical problem for the EU cars, so making a US adapter would be a straight forward proposition, requiring little time and effort. Because of that, I think it will happen at some point, but that’s just me reading the market and guessing...

Locking the type 2 plug to the charging port is far more elegant than the NA type 1 and an adapter for it will have to solve that. It will not be pretty, there is a reason CCS type 1 was called the Frankenplug. I'm not holding my breath.

 

[vdiv]

CHAdeMO adapter sold out again:

CHAdeMO Adapter

 

[Rocky_H]

Good looking out, I would definitely get the CCS adapter just because of the VW build out of Electrify America, the Chademo....eh...?,

I also would like to get a CCS Adaptor.

What is the chances of getting one in 2020 ?

The Chademo adapter is out of stock and I choose to believe that this indicates that they are about to announce the CCS adapter. Feeling optimistic for no real reason.

Past history is not always a predictor of future performance, but I would tend to go with it over irrational hoping. To review: several years ago, Tesla actually announced that they were actually working on a CHAdeMO adapter, and it would be available "soon". It took a year and a half to actually become available.

So with this North American CCS adapter that Tesla has not announced they will even make at all, I can't really get on board with the idea that it will be announced and built and offered for sale in a very short time frame.

Tesla has solved the technical problem for the EU cars, so making a US adapter would be a straight forward proposition, requiring little time and effort.

Ah, but the EU versus US cars/ports have a significant difference that makes this not straightforward. We've known for a while that adding CCS to the European cars would be much easier, because the Tesla car charging ports already matched what was available on all the public AC charging stations and was half of the CCS port. That's the Type2 Mennekes plug, which Tesla already decided to use as their charging port on the car.

In the U.S. there is a problem. The top half of CCS is the J1772, which the U.S. Teslas don't have as their built-in charging port, so they need to preserve the proprietary Tesla plug that the Superchargers and destination chargers already have, and also add the entire CCS port somehow.

So it's not as much a technical problem as a physical problem.

 

[brkaus]

CHAdeMO adapters are back in stock, mine just arrived today. With any luck, I can use the crap out of it this next month so that when the CCS combo adapter arrives next year I won't have wasted all this money.

We are all hoping you bought the last one!

But I don't expect the CCS support for North America for years...

 

[Saghost]

Past history is not always a predictor of future performance, but I would tend to go with it over irrational hoping. To review: several years ago, Tesla actually announced that they were actually working on a CHAdeMO adapter, and it would be available "soon". It took a year and a half to actually become available.

So with this North American CCS adapter that Tesla has not announced they will even make at all, I can't really get on board with the idea that it will be announced and built and offered for sale in a very short time frame.


Ah, but the EU versus US cars/ports have a significant difference that makes this not straightforward. We've known for a while that adding CCS to the European cars would be much easier, because the Tesla car charging ports already matched what was available on all the public AC charging stations and was half of the CCS port. That's the Type2 Mennekes plug, which Tesla already decided to use as their charging port on the car.

In the U.S. there is a problem. The top half of CCS is the J1772, which the U.S. Teslas don't have as their built-in charging port, so they need to preserve the proprietary Tesla plug that the Superchargers and destination chargers already have, and also add the entire CCS port somehow.

So it's not as much a technical problem as a physical problem.

I’m not sure what you’re seeing as the problem here. The Tesla port has the exact same wires with the exact same functions as J1772, just packaged slightly differently.

Yes, the face on the outside of the adapter will be larger and different shape than the face that plugs into the car, but that’s exactly the same as the J1772 adapter Tesla includes with each car.

They only need a few changes to that one - add the lower ports and run them instead of the AC pins to the car, and some sort of lever that causes the adapter to grab the CCS port when it is grabbed by the car...

 

[Rocky_H]

I’m not sure what you’re seeing as the problem here. The Tesla port has the exact same wires with the exact same functions as J1772, just packaged slightly differently.

Yes! You said you don't see the problem...and then described the problem!

Yes, the face on the outside of the adapter will be larger and different shape than the face that plugs into the car, but that’s exactly the same as the J1772 adapter Tesla includes with each car.

It is pin equivalent, but this physical shape difference is a real and significant problem. The substance of this problem exists in the tens of thousands of Tesla wall connectors and mobile connectors that are already out there. That is not exactly the same as the J1772 adapter Tesla includes with each car. It is exactly the reverse of that adapter. There are people who have hacked together things like that, like the J-dapter Stub, etc. which go from a Tesla proprietary plug to a J1772 port, but Tesla doesn't currently offer that.

They only need a few changes to that one - add the lower ports and run them instead of the AC pins to the car,

So here is the real problem. If they make those "few changes", by switching the port shape from the Tesla proprietary shape to the J1772 shape, now all of those tens of thousands of wall connectors and mobile connectors can't plug into those changed new cars without some other kind of third party adapter that Tesla doesn't currently offer. That would outrage a lot of people, and is a really Big Deal (TM).

 

[Fredneck]

So with EA bringing CCS chargers to so many places that Tesla has not reached, how much longer will Tesla go without a CCS adapter?

 

[Rocky_H]

So with EA bringing CCS chargers to so many places that Tesla has not reached

Can you point out somewhere you see this happening? I haven't seen that yet. Where I keep watching the EA deployment, they are simply re-treading the same ground and the same interstate routes that Tesla covered years ago. That makes sense anyway I guess, since those are obviously the most popular routes. But I haven't seen EA cover routes that Tesla doesn't have. Of course that is different than having extra capacity in some places, where the Supercharger is usually full and the EA station a few miles away is mostly empty.

 

[Jeff N]

Much more involved. I don’t have the legend for that chart, but basically somewhere in the phase marked association and initialization the pilot signal duty cycle tells the car how much current is available.

A 5% duty cycle says this is a DCFC station and all the digital communications start.

For Level 1/2, the only communication is that duty cycle and the car pulling down the voltage when it wants power, at which point the EVSE contacts close and connect mains AC power to the pins in the car - and the car is responsible for not pulling more than the advertised limit from the EVSE.

Technically, the digital communications mechanism triggered by the 5% duty cycle is required for, but not limited to DC, and can also be optionally used for AC charging.

There is no compelling reason to bother with anything beyond the simpler analog control signals for AC charging today but in the future some AC chargers may support the new “Plug and Charge” capability and that requires digital communications.

 

[Eno Deb]

So here is the real problem. If they make those "few changes", by switching the port shape from the Tesla proprietary shape to the J1772 shape, now all of those tens of thousands of wall connectors and mobile connectors can't plug into those changed new cars without some other kind of third party adapter that Tesla doesn't currently offer. That would outrage a lot of people, and is a really Big Deal (TM).

Huh? Tesla could easily build an adapter that would physically fit into the existing North American Tesla port in the car and provide a CCS connection on the other side. It's not fundamentally different from what they did with the J1772 adapter, just that the two DC pins need to be added on the CCS side (just like on the European adapter).

The only question is whether the controller in the car can be updated to understand the CCS protocols by software or requires a hardware retrofit like older Model S/X in Europe.

 

[Eno Deb]

Locking the type 2 plug to the charging port is far more elegant than the NA type 1 and an adapter for it will have to solve that. It will not be pretty, there is a reason CCS type 1 was called the Frankenplug. I'm not holding my breath.

Why would that be an issue? It's not an issue on the J1772 adapter either. The car will lock the adapter in the port, but the charger plug would not be locked to the adapter (just like it isn't locked to the port on cars that natively support CCS).

 

[vdiv]

Why would that be an issue? It's not an issue on the J1772 adapter either. The car will lock the adapter in the port, but the charger plug would not be locked to the adapter (just like it isn't locked to the port on cars that natively support CCS).

With DCFC you have to lock the plug to prevent removal when energized. The Tesla CCS type 2 adapter does that. Locking on CHAdeMO is done by the plug, not the port on the car/Tesla adapter.

 

[Eno Deb]

With DCFC you have to lock the plug to prevent removal when energized. The Tesla CCS type 2 adapter does that. Locking on CHAdeMO is done by the plug, not the port on the car/Tesla adapter.

But the same can be done for CCS if necessary (i.e. the charger locks the release button on the plug while current is flowing).

 

[vdiv]

But the same can be done for CCS if necessary (i.e. the charger locks the release button on the plug while current is flowing).

It is necessary.
It is being done on the Tesla CCS type 2 adapter mechanically as the lock is the same on the car port as it is a modified type 2. All that is needed is a mechanical lever inside the adapter.
The locks are not the same on the TSL-02 port in the US and the CCS type 1 so a separate electromechanical lock needs to be implemented on such adapter, something will have to drive that lock, it will be big, and it will be a failure point. Hence having a CCS type 1 adapter is not as straight-forward.

 

[Saghost]

Yes! You said you don't see the problem...and then described the problem!


It is pin equivalent, but this physical shape difference is a real and significant problem. The substance of this problem exists in the tens of thousands of Tesla wall connectors and mobile connectors that are already out there. That is not exactly the same as the J1772 adapter Tesla includes with each car. It is exactly the reverse of that adapter. There are people who have hacked together things like that, like the J-dapter Stub, etc. which go from a Tesla proprietary plug to a J1772 port, but Tesla doesn't currently offer that.


So here is the real problem. If they make those "few changes", by switching the port shape from the Tesla proprietary shape to the J1772 shape, now all of those tens of thousands of wall connectors and mobile connectors can't plug into those changed new cars without some other kind of third party adapter that Tesla doesn't currently offer. That would outrage a lot of people, and is a really Big Deal (TM).

Oh.

You’re proceeding from different assumptions than I am. You’re describing some sort of solution where the car natively has a CCS port built in. That is problematic in a number of ways, as you said.

What I was describing is something like the EU S/X CCS solution, where the car keeps the existing port, possibly with upgraded electronics, and Tesla sells a dumb adapter that mechanically and electrically connects the existing charge port with the CCS plug.

That’s why I said they solved it all in the EU - all I need is the new electronics for the EU S/X port and an adapter that’s about half of the current EU adapt and half of the J1772 one shipping with every car.