Excellent point! I hope they could figure out a way to raise the power limit, but it seems likely that it would have the same limit. Still something I plan on getting (if it comes to North America). This highlights one of the benefits of a retrofit over the adapter.
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Excellent point! I hope they could figure out a way to raise the power limit, but it seems likely that it would have the same limit. Still something I plan on getting (if it comes to North America). This highlights one of the benefits of a retrofit over the adapter.
I think the problem is cooling. You would need some way to actively cool the adapter at higher charge rates.
I don't know of such a good app.
ChargePoint's web site lets you compare estimated fee and you can get a list for that. You have to select a vehicle and session length. Alas, it only works on the stations in ChargePoint's app/web site and it didn't look like I could filter out stations that I can't use (e.g. the ton of DC FCs at Facebook's HQ in Menlo Park). It sometimes is good for stumbling across free or very cheap ChargePoint stations.
For the others, well, EVgo Charging Plans | How Much Does it Cost to Charge an EV and Pricing and Plans for EV Charging | Electrify America are pretty clear cut for a given geographic area. Greenlots pricing is all over the place. Blink's pricing is uniform for a given geographic area but when I last checked a few weeks ago, they still had no CCS in California (only CHAdeMO and L2) so that makes them useless for me, other than overpriced L2.
If one uses Plugshare, since the pricing is crowdsourced, it may not be accurate.
israndy
Supercharger Hunter
The data on Gas Buddy and Waze is both crowdsourced and submitted by chains. It is sometimes inaccurate, I have driven miles off the freeway for a miracle price that didn't materialize. But it would be nice to know my options in one place like those apps.
PlugShare is great for finding free locations, but too often there are restrictions on free "Why are you trying to charge a Tesla at this Nissan dealership?" I just wanna way to find the cheapest way to charge as these charge stations mature. There are sites that charge a buck for an hour of L3 charging but they are hard to find. There will need to be standards on charging, I was at an EVGateway site this week that demanded you create a membership and put $20 on a card in order to get a free charge at their site.
Right now it's not worth the headache to save a few pennies when the Tesla stations are so vastly superior in terms of reliability and availability.
PlugShare is great for finding free locations, but too often there are restrictions on free "Why are you trying to charge a Tesla at this Nissan dealership?" I just wanna way to find the cheapest way to charge as these charge stations mature. There are sites that charge a buck for an hour of L3 charging but they are hard to find. There will need to be standards on charging, I was at an EVGateway site this week that demanded you create a membership and put $20 on a card in order to get a free charge at their site.
Right now it's not worth the headache to save a few pennies when the Tesla stations are so vastly superior in terms of reliability and availability.
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350000W divided by 800V times 400V gives 175000W which is why the CCS stations designed for a maximum of 350kW @ 800V can still output up to 175kW for 400V vehicles.
The PlugShare information could be vastly improved, no doubt. But I'm not wanting a CCS adapter to save on charging fees. I want it in order to give me more charging locations.
I think it would be good for Tesla as well. They could say that their cars have more charging options than anyone else, and their cars would be showing up at these other charging locations as advertisements to people who can only charge there.
Depends on the charger's amperage limit. Multiply by pack voltage.
For example 50kW CCS chargers could be 400V x 125A, or, if unlucky, 500V x 100A.
Yes but that's what I was pointing out. A 350W 800V CCS charger must have a current limit of at least 437.5A and therefore at 400V would be physically able of 175W
In practice it can be and often is lower (perhaps the DC-DC voltage converters are limited for example) but it shouldn't be a surprise that you can get over 150kW from such chargers as someone expressed.
Of course, if you're using an adapter, that can be a limiter too. Weakest link in the chain and all.
In practice it can be and often is lower (perhaps the DC-DC voltage converters are limited for example) but it shouldn't be a surprise that you can get over 150kW from such chargers as someone expressed.
Of course, if you're using an adapter, that can be a limiter too. Weakest link in the chain and all.
As @miimura pointed out to me in comment on the previous page, it appears that the 350 kW units used by EA have a 500A limit. That comment also includes what the charging profile would look like if there were no further limitations by the adapter. However, as others have pointed out, the passive CCS combo 2 adapter in the EU is limited to 142 kW and it seems likely that the passive Tesla CCS combo 1 adapter will have a similar limit.
Ah, I missed those posts for some reason. Anyway, that wouldn't be surprising. Are there even any Model S vehicles capable of full Supercharger V3 speeds? It sure would be nice if the flagships could charge as fast as the 3/Y
Yes. Newer S & X have been able to charge at 250 kW for quite some time. Thicker Wires In Model S/X Allow Charging At Up To 250 kW
2019 Ravens should be able to charge at 225 kW and even older S & X can actually achieve rates close to 200 kW. My 2017 Model S 100D hit 187 kW at a new v3 Supercharger over the summer.
I continue to struggle to understand the voltage and amperage numbers for CCS chargers.
SAE J1772-2017 specifies a max of 1000V and 400A, which is what I thought dictates voltage and current limits for CCS chargers (or at least CCS1 in North America):
I used to think (based on some random EV forum/article comments that I had read) that the latest generation of "350kW" chargers are based on 1000V and 350A.
But evidence shows that Electrify America and Ionity chargers actually go up to 920V and 500A.
For Ionity chargers (in Europe, CCS2), this Ionity presentation states that they are capable of up to 920V and 500A:
This 500A figure also roughly aligns with the graph from Bjorn’s video showing Model 3 charging speeds which was linked in the earlier post from @miimura showing charge rates up to ~190kW from an Ionity charger (assuming ~380V X 500A = ~190kW).
And for Electrify America CCS1 chargers, this photo of a "350kW" Electrify America charging station from a Plugshare page for an EA station in Firebaugh, CA, also shows up to 920V and 500A:
So is J1772-2017 not the controlling standard for CCS chargers? If not, what is?
And what is the actual math that explains the "350kW" moniker applied to this latest generation of CCS chargers?
SAE J1772-2017 specifies a max of 1000V and 400A, which is what I thought dictates voltage and current limits for CCS chargers (or at least CCS1 in North America):
I used to think (based on some random EV forum/article comments that I had read) that the latest generation of "350kW" chargers are based on 1000V and 350A.
But evidence shows that Electrify America and Ionity chargers actually go up to 920V and 500A.
For Ionity chargers (in Europe, CCS2), this Ionity presentation states that they are capable of up to 920V and 500A:
This 500A figure also roughly aligns with the graph from Bjorn’s video showing Model 3 charging speeds which was linked in the earlier post from @miimura showing charge rates up to ~190kW from an Ionity charger (assuming ~380V X 500A = ~190kW).
And for Electrify America CCS1 chargers, this photo of a "350kW" Electrify America charging station from a Plugshare page for an EA station in Firebaugh, CA, also shows up to 920V and 500A:
So is J1772-2017 not the controlling standard for CCS chargers? If not, what is?
And what is the actual math that explains the "350kW" moniker applied to this latest generation of CCS chargers?
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You only showed the dispenser rating label. The cabinets that actually push the DC power are also a limiting factor. With the same dispenser, you could have a single 200kW cabinet with the same 200V-920V rating or a pair of 175kW cabinets aggregated to push up to 350kW. In any case, the J1772-2017 you showed is clearly being exceeded. There may be an addendum or something related to actively cooled cables and connectors.
The apparent discrepancy is explained in the labeling of the table in the first attached picture (SAE table). The 400A limit is the max CONTINUOUS amperage rating. Multiply that by 1.25 and you get the absolute max current of 500A. Or, as most people are more familiar with going the other direction, take 80% of your max of 500A and you get the continuous limit of 400A.
Good catch on the Continuous vs. Max issue. Supercharger V3 dispensers also show a continuous rating on their label which is greatly exceeded for short periods.
I just received a notice that my SETEC CCS adapter from Korea is about to ship. So, I am going to potentially get mine soon. LOL it may get here before I even get my car...
The real question is, who on these forums in Norcal is a skilled enough EE to figure out if this thing is likely to work BEFORE I fry my brand new M3P. I am even willing to donate this thing to the interests of science and let the right person open it up, etc. so everyone can actually get some real answers. I will post up once I get confirmed ship notice and ETA.
I don’t think frying the car is a realistic possibility.
Either it has the right hardware and the car has the right hardware and firmware to allow CCS communication between them or not.
If the CCS communications work, the car sets voltages and currents just like CHAdeMO or Supercharging; if it doesn’t everything will just sit there with no power flowing.
That is good to know. I suspected that might be the case. I guess I am just paranoid with high voltage and electronics.
Got the UPS package ready for pickup from shipper confirmation this morning. Will have ETA once UPS picks up and enters that on their side. Express Worldwide Saver rate. Not sure how long that takes, customs, etc.
Hope it works. It will definitely give me more options when I am up in the mountains skiing. There are some SC but there are also CCS/Chademo where there are no SC. With super cold temps, I want maximum options.
I hope it is not a very expensive paperweight and that it gives other folks data on whether it is a real option for them.
Alas, my delivery estimate is doing the “you live 15 min from the factory so no soup for you until the very last minute “ thing. Estimates rolling forward - was 12/23-12/31 until late last night. Now 12/24-12/31. At least I have some hope for this year and the newer headlamps!
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I'm more than happy to evaluate it. I can do a test with a real CCS charger here.
