CCS Adapter for North America

[SageBrush]

Yep. Think the Leaf is at 80 KW

IIRC the LEAF+ (62 kWh model) has ~ 300 Amp capability ... but the CHAdeMO network in N. America does not.

 

[cwerdna]

I'd love to be proven wrong, but I think 2021 models of Chevy Bolt, Kia Niro, Kia Soul, Hyundai Kona, and Nissan Leaf (others?) still top out at less than 100 kW...

The 2020 BMW i3 tops out at 50 kW per 2020 BMW i3s: How Fast Does It Charge?. I'm not aware of any improvements to that with model year 2021.

 

[cwerdna]

I don't know much about Kia and Hyundai,

Electrify America's 'Hyundai Select Plan' Addresses Pricing Issue

In the case of the Hyundai Kona Electric (and Kia Niro EV, but we'll get into that later) when the vehicle initially communicates with the Electrify America station, it tells the station that it's capable of accepting 77kW, and that puts it just over the threshold and into the middle tier pricing.

The problem is, Kona EV owners never see their vehicles accepting more than about 70 kW, and at most 73 kW, so they really should be paying the significantly-lower tier 1 cost per minute. This problem can more than double the cost they should be paying and has had many Kona EV owners reach out to us and say they won't use the Electrify America network under any circumstance until this is resolved.

Electrify America Offers Kia Select Plan To Reconcile Kia Pricing Issue

However, the Niro EV rarely ever accepts over 70 kW, so the vehicle really shouldn't be in the middle-tier pricing tier, it should be in the lowest tier, which would allow Niro EV owners to pay the significantly-lower tier 1 per-minute fee.

Are you thinking of the brain dead Chevy Bolt ?

Remember, this current generation of Bolt shipped in Dec 2016: Chevrolet Delivers First Bolt EVs to Customers and maxes out at 55 kW. What other non-Tesla EV shipping at that time in the US had a faster DC fast charge rate?

 

[MP3Mike]

Actually, I don't think I know of any 2021 EV model that will marketed in the USA with anything less than 100 kW and I think 120 - 150 kW is mainstream.

But the majority of the cars on the road now can't use the EA chargers at/past 150kW. In fact I think the majority are slower than 75kW. (The Taycan being the exception that can charge faster at the 350kW stalls, or at the 150kW stalls if they paid for the optional 150kW charging option.)

I know lots of other cars with faster charging have been announced, but they aren't on the US roads yet. (At least not in any volume.)

 

[scaesare]

I recall somewhere here or elsewhere mentioned that the Model 3 charger board had 3 identical circuits on it - in 3-phase these charged from each phase, in 1-phase these worked in parallel.

This is correct. Three 16A chargers that either run 1-per-phase or are paralleled for single-phase use.

That doesn't mean the communications/signaling electronics are programmed to accept the same in all locations however.

 

[jmbloom_m3p]

But the majority of the cars on the road now can't use the EA chargers at/past 150kW. In fact I think the majority are slower than 75kW. (The Taycan being the exception that can charge faster at the 350kW stalls, or at the 150kW stalls if they paid for the optional 150kW charging option.)

I know lots of other cars with faster charging have been announced, but they aren't on the US roads yet. (At least not in any volume.)

Or you could have a Mach E and get effective charging rates of 20kw. See the recent Autoblog article. Wow #FordFail. Manufacturers are so far behind Tesla and getting farther. Every announcement is by 2024. Or by 2030. It’s pretty pathetic.

 

[israndy]

This is correct. Three 16A chargers that either run 1-per-phase or are paralleled for single-phase use.

Did they follow thru with the threat to only put 32amp chargers in the shorter range vehicles? That was one of my excuses for buying the LR when they first came out. I spent a lot more money than I wanted to but I wanted the all-glass roof and the garage door opener and the leather seats of the more expensive car, really blew past my $35K budget by ~twice, I know they didn't put the garage opener in the cheaper cars, but they got all the rest of the nice piano black stuff in my expensive car. Never heard about the charger tho

 

[cwerdna]

Did they follow thru with the threat to only put 32amp chargers in the shorter range vehicles? That was one of my excuses for buying the LR when they first came out. I spent a lot more money than I wanted to but I wanted the all-glass roof and the garage door opener and the leather seats of the more expensive car, really blew past my $35K budget by ~twice, I know they didn't put the garage opener in the cheaper cars, but they got all the rest of the nice piano black stuff in my expensive car. Never heard about the charger tho

Onboard Charger lists what they're doing on currently offered as new Teslas in the US. This of course doesn't cover vehicles that have been discontinued and others that previously had 40, 72 and 80 amps of OBC.

You can kinda get an idea of the evolution by trying different dates at Wayback Machine and Home charging installation.

 

[cwerdna]

Or you could have a Mach E and get effective charging rates of 20kw. See the recent Autoblog article. Wow #FordFail. Manufacturers are so far behind Tesla and getting farther. Every announcement is by 2024. Or by 2030. It’s pretty pathetic.

I hadn't heard about that but I found Electrify America charge site falls short of Ford Mustang Mach-E claims. I skimmed and found:

Hopping from the driver’s seat, I saw the charger screen insisting electricity was being delivered at 74.2 kilowatts. That was only about half the 150-kilowatt rate touted on the machine’s placard, and I would have happily taken it. The actual trickle of juice going into the Ford was 20 kilowatts at best; a fraction of the expected rate, and only about twice as fast as a piddling, 11-kilowatt Level 2 home charger. Ambient temps were in the 40s, and there are always some transmission losses from electrical resistance and heat (typically on the order of 10 to 20 percent) but this was ridiculous.

I think there was user error or something here about the supposed 20 kW. If the DC FC says 74.2 kW, that's what it's delivering. I've used EA a few times and what it says on the display when it cycles to/you can get it to switch to kW is correct and very close to what my Bolt's display says on the right side of the dash.

Also, EA after your session ends will send you a receipt with some stats. Unfortunately, I know of no way to bring up a graph of your session (in progress or past) unlike on ChargePoint. Receipt looks like this:
"Thank you for charging with Electrify America.
Assistance: 1-833-632-2778
08/11/2020 08:51:57 PM
.... (address of charger and charger number here)
Connector #2
Total paid: $0.93
Session ID: (my session id)
Transaction ID: NA
Charging pricing: $0.00 + $0.18/minute (pre-tax)
Charging cost: $0.93
Discount: $ 0.00
Idling: $0.00 ($0.40/min)
Sales tax (0%): $ 0.00
End state of charge: 53%
Energy delivered: 4.6 kWh
Max charging rate: 55.27 kW
Charging time: 00:05:09
Grace period: 00:07 min
Paid idle time: 00:00"

This was under EA's old pricing regime on Pass+ for California. The above would be $1.43 under their new regime on Pass+.

 

[SageBrush]

Remember, this current generation of Bolt shipped in Dec 2016: Chevrolet Delivers First Bolt EVs to Customers and maxes out at 55 kW. What other non-Tesla EV shipping at that time in the US had a faster DC fast charge rate?

Welp, that explains 2016

 

[SageBrush]

But the majority of the cars on the road now can't use the EA chargers at/past 150kW.

As I said to someone who tried to say that 50 kW is mainstream -- it is not. 120 - 150 kW is mainstream for 2021.

 

[Ingineer]

Our ePro vans charge at up to 200kW at the 350kW Electrify America stations:

Maxwell Vehicles

 

[cwerdna]

2021 Hyundai Electric Review, Pricing, and Specs says
"What's New for 2021?
Hyundai has replaced the Summit Gray exterior color, available on the 2020 model year Ioniq Electric, with a new Amazon Gray for the 2021 model year. Otherwise, there are no changes." and further down refers to 38.3 kWh.

From a quick look at

from Sept 2019 of the gen 2 Ioniq Electric, I didn't see it go higher than 47 kW. As Bjorn points out, this is a big step backwards in DC FC speed from gen 1.

 

[MP3Mike]

As I said to someone who tried to say that 50 kW is mainstream -- it is not. 120 - 150 kW is mainstream for 2021.

So can you list all of these mainstream 120+ kW charging EVs that will be for sale in the US in 2021? Or are you talking about 2022 model years that they say will be available in the Fall of 2021?

I'll start the list for you:

• Porsche Taycan: But only at 800+ volt CCS chargers unless you pay for an optional 150kW charging unit. (But I wouldn't really call this a mainstream vehicle.)

 

[mspohr]

So can you list all of these mainstream 120+ kW charging EVs that will be for sale in the US in 2021? Or are you talking about 2022 model years that they say will be available in the Fall of 2021?

I'll start the list for you:

• Porsche Taycan: But only at 800+ volt CCS chargers unless you pay for an optional 150kW charging unit. (But I wouldn't really call this a mainstream vehicle.)

Of course Tesla S and X - 225 kW
Tesla 3 and Y
Tesla increases Model S and X Supercharging rate to 225 kW - Electrek

 

[wws]

Another thing about EA (and perhaps others?) pricing: In some cases they increase the per kWh price when charging at certain kW thresholds. (E.g., Pricing and Plans for EV Charging | Electrify America) If the SETEC adapter is limited to 200 amps, I'm guessing it'd initiate the charge at below EAs 90 kW threshold. But a Tesla supported option would likely be higher. So it would be nice to have an on-screen menu option to limit charging to just below the threshold. Adjustable limit as pricing thresholds will change over time. In fact the EA threshold used to be at 75 kW, with another at 150+ kW.

 

[masotime]

In some cases they increase the per kWh price when charging at certain kW thresholds. (E.g., Pricing and Plans for EV Charging | Electrify America) .

I went to the link - for per kWh pricing it says it’s a flat $0.43/kWh, or $0.31/kWh if you’re a Pass+ member? From my reading, it doesn’t sound like there’s a “kW threshold”.

 

[e of pi]

I went to the link - for per kWh pricing it says it’s a flat $0.43/kWh, or $0.31/kWh if you’re a Pass+ member? From my reading, it doesn’t sound like there’s a “kW threshold”.

It used to be per-minute charging, gated to a couple different charging rates, as an approximation of per-kW pricing. I think it still be in some states that don't allow per-kWh pricing.

 

[GHammer]

I went to the link - for per kWh pricing it says it’s a flat $0.43/kWh, or $0.31/kWh if you’re a Pass+ member? From my reading, it doesn’t sound like there’s a “kW threshold”.

View attachment 621605

The rate threshold applies to states that have per minute pricing instead of per kW pricing.

 

[wws]

I went to the link - for per kWh pricing it says it’s a flat $0.43/kWh, or $0.31/kWh if you’re a Pass+ member? From my reading, it doesn’t sound like there’s a “kW threshold”.

Look at the entries for "per-min States". Kia and Hyundai owners had a big problem when the threshold was set at 75 kW. Their cars are theoretically capable of just over 75 kW, so report that when initiating the charge. But in practice were usually drawing less than 75 kW. So they were getting screwed over by the system.