CCS Adapter for North America

[e of pi]

Thanks. I'll have to look that up. I found it strange the current was listed as "Pilot" and indicated a very low power level for such a high power level.

Current would have been 475A which greatly exceeds the specs on the adapter based on your real power and voltage.

I think the "pilot" current is the current on the communications pins, used for the car and station to handshake AC/DC available and desired, voltage available and desired, and then amperage available and desired continuously during the charge, hence why it's a relatively low current.

 

[TravelFree]

There's been a number of people trying the adapter on "350 kW" cabinets and pulling >170 kW, even up to 190 or 200 kW, and I don't think any have reported the adapter even getting much more than warm. I suspect the 300 amp rating is precautionary, conservative, and possibly a "continuous" rating that can be exceeded for short charging sessions of well under an hour where there will be substantial time for the adapter to cool before the next use and its temperature may be being monitored by sensors on both the car and station side.

I agree if the only concern is overheating and causing a fire or melt down of the device. However there have been reports of shutdown of the session prematurely and this might have been triggered by Tesla circuit breakers in the car. Those shutdowns may also have been caused by the adapter losing connection too. I don't think we can say for sure other than Tesla warning that it's possible to exceed the adapter rating and voiding your warranty. Seems a safer way would be to avoid those few minutes of exceeding the charge current maximum.

Kind of like a choice between exceeding the NEC 80% continuous duty rule on a circuit breaker because you don't believe it will cause a fire---80% being "precautionary" Yet if there is a fire, your insurance may decline coverage due to illegal wiring.

There was a study done by one of the You Tube guys that compared the charge time on 150KW vs 250KW with a Model 3, or Y and determined if charging past 60% SOC the total time was the same. I found this to be true on my S, but getting to 50% SOC from 5% was faster having that peak exceed 150KW.

 

[e of pi]

The car requests the current being sent to it from the station, even during DC charging. If Tesla believed it was truly unsafe to run 300 amps across their South Korean/US CCS1 adapter...they could simply stop any car which doesn't come from the factory with a CCS port on it from ever asking for more than 300 amps, and no station would ever give it to them. They're not. They appear to do something similar in Europe, where their own CCS2 adapter has a 410V, 210 amp limit printed on it, making for a nominal 86 kW limit...except apparently the cars request up to 120 kW, more like 290-300 amps. Again, they're likely printing a continuous rating on the adapter, and then using what they can actually get to in non-continuous operations. If they're programming the cars to request something unsafe, that's as much on their firmware as on the users.

 

[FalconFour]

I can at least say with certainty that the "300a" label on the adapter is nothing but wasted ink. The adapter has no electronics, thus it has no limit of its own. CCS, with my EVHub adapter, has gone 500a on a 500a station multiple times - and the official Tesla adapter (which I'll have very soon!) is no different - but likely a little more robust (thus stays cooler, thus stays faster, longer - as the car and station adjust charging rate based on port temperature as well).

The communication is also maddeningly complex - pilot amperage is something AC J1772 does, but DC just signals "I'd like to speak digitally, please" in its amperage signal, then all the real logic happens in the digital realm. The car and station exchanges bits back and forth hundreds of times a second, pitter-patter-chitter-chattering with complexity so deep there's entire teams dedicated to implementing it.

With DC charging (Supercharging, CCS, CHAdeMO, whatever), the station charges the battery directly - thus the need for such ... intense communication. It's not feeding a fixed voltage to the car (like 500v, or anything). The car just opens up its battery to the cable and says "feed me, very specifically". If the car or the station don't like what each other are doing, *snap*, they can cut the whole conversation off. And that's a theory as to what's happening with that station in Alaska (or generally any other time you're at a CCS station that just... randomly stops): one side or the other didn't like something, so *snap*, it stops.

ninja last-second edit to add:
That's not to say (by "the station charges the battery") that the station has the "final say" in the matter. Both sides agree, constantly, on what they want to see. There is no forcing, there can be no "unwanted touching". Both the station and the car kinda have a "final say" in everything. Station has limits, car has limits. Station has needs... car has needs. Thus, tons of communication. More than in some marriages.

 

[SageBrush]

I'm guessing here but maybe when using the CCS adapter it is better to use a 150 KW cabinet as opposed to the 350 one and avoid possibly exceeding the ratings of the adapter to avoid any possible faults that would trigger a shutdown of the session?

That is my intent -- 150 kW chargers.
It is just a matter of time before someone causes damage using the 350 kW chargers and then shows on Tesla's doorstep expecting a warranty repair.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Did some digging into the adapter tech info. It seems that current higher than 300A DC is not supported. If the charger supplies that at 500v DC then the power is 500 x 300 = 150000 watts. I wonder if this adapter is connected to a 350KW EA charger and the Tesla is preconditioned to receive maximum charge, exceeding the 300A limit a fault is generated.

In my first test, I achieved 146KW peak on the Tesla screen , 148 on the EA charger screen, which did not shut down. My Model S was not preconditioned. The charging ramped down to 120KW when I reached 35%SOC. It all looked quite normal to me compared to using a Tesla 250KW cabinet.

I then drove to a Tesla V3 SC about 5 miles away and hooked up. Beginning at 34% SOC, I quickly ramped up to 160KW. I charged to 75% SOC and ended up at 71 KW. By now I suspect the Battery may have been at higher temperature from the EA charging session. I did not set the destination to activate preconditioning.

I'm guessing here but maybe when using the CCS adapter it is better to use a 150 KW cabinet as opposed to the 350 one and avoid possibly exceeding the ratings of the adapter to avoid any possible faults that would trigger a shutdown of the session?

I learned from this thread that EA 350 kW stations vary in nature:

Testing CCS1 adapter on my MYP in New England

Tried out the OEM Tesla CCS1 adapter at a couple Electrify America stations this past weekend. The first one was a 150kW CCS1 charger in Dorchester MA which gave me 30kW @ 70% SoC. The next one was a 350kW CCS1 charger in Providence RI which gave me 100 kW @ 42% SoC. I’ll have to roll in with a...

teslamotorsclub.com

Some are 350 amps and some are 500 amps. You need a 500 amp one in order to get above 150 kW bc Tesla's are 400 volt architecture.

400 volts x 350 amps = 140 kW
400 volts x 500 amps = 200 kW

 

[chinney]

Frankly, for some of us, this all seems a bit complicated. What I want is to drive up to a charger, to plug in quickly, to charge reasonably quickly and leave.

 

[Mockingbird]

Frankly, for some of us, this all seems a bit complicated. What I want is to drive up to a charger, to plug in quickly, to charge reasonably quickly and leave.

 

[SageBrush]

400 volts x 350 amps = 140 kW
400 volts x 500 amps = 200 kW

Yes, but you will never see 200 kW with a present day Tesla at a 500 Amp charger because the charging is rate limited way before you get to 400 Volts. The peak is more along the lines of 500*0.36 = 180 kW. That occurs in the 20 - 40% SoC range

But back to the question at hand: the wishful thinking crowd want the 300 Amp max rating to represent continuous use, that is > 3 hours. They then calculate the non-continuous rating as 300/0.8 = 375 Amps. But of course, that is not what the adapter says.

Until Tesla tells me otherwise, I'll happily live within the 300 Amp limit.

 

[Jeff N]

I learned from this thread that EA 350 kW stations vary in nature:

Testing CCS1 adapter on my MYP in New England

Tried out the OEM Tesla CCS1 adapter at a couple Electrify America stations this past weekend. The first one was a 150kW CCS1 charger in Dorchester MA which gave me 30kW @ 70% SoC. The next one was a 350kW CCS1 charger in Providence RI which gave me 100 kW @ 42% SoC. I’ll have to roll in with a...

teslamotorsclub.com

Some are 350 amps and some are 500 amps. You need a 500 amp one in order to get above 150 kW bc Tesla's are 400 volt architecture.

400 volts x 350 amps = 140 kW
400 volts x 500 amps = 200 kW

As a Bolt EV owner who did many road trips around the western US, I’ve charged at dozens of different EA sites. I used to routinely check out the nameplates on the various hardware that was installed.

I don’t recall ever seeing a dispenser labeled 350 kW that had a nameplate showing a peak output current of less than 500A. The dispensers labeled as 150 kW typically had nameplates with a peak of 350A.

The only time I remember seeing a dispenser nameplate with a peak current of 400A was, I think, at EVgo’s first high-power CCS site in Baker, CA that preceded any EA sites. It was an early ABB unit.

Maybe there are some EA sites with 350 kW dispensers that are limited to 350A but I doubt they are common and honestly I’m dubious that they actually exist.

Note, that the cabling at many of these dispensers is rated at 400A continuous and there could be other hardware limitations as well so probably few, if any, EA chargers can run at 500A continuously.

I spoke to a senior engineer at EA once about 3 years ago and he said at that time that some of their 350 kW units could run at 500A for a couple of minutes and others could run for up to 10 minutes or so, if I remember correctly, before reducing their output current.

That time limit is not a big issue today with the existing vehicles on the road because their battery packs face similar limitations in drawing high current (even Teslas). Bigger packs that can handle higher power in the near future will likely be designed to charge at “800V” anyway.

 

[e of pi]

But back to the question at hand: the wishful thinking crowd want the 300 Amp max rating to represent continuous use, that is > 3 hours. They then calculate the non-continuous rating as 300/0.8 = 375 Amps. But of course, that is not what the adapter says.

Until Tesla tells me otherwise, I'll happily live within the 300 Amp limit.

If they have an actual safety concern, they should limit the amperage with the car's software, the way the protocol says to. If you take your friend to an all-you can eat buffet and he eats thirty spicy chicken wings, it's not really reasonable of him to spend the rest of the night complaining you should have stopped him because you know he's got acid reflux and should have only had ten. Again, they exceed their own rated amperage in Europe, too, so there's past history of them having and routinely using headroom above the amp limits.

 

[lUtriaNt]

Glad to hear, since I don’t want to provide credentials. Do you know where they are getting stock?

they most likely got someone locally in korea to order a batch of them.

 

[Jeff N]

Yes, but you will never see 200 kW with a present day Tesla at a 500 Amp charger because the charging is rate limited way before you get to 400 Volts. The peak is more along the lines of 500*0.36 = 180 kW. That occurs in the 20 - 40% SoC range

But back to the question at hand: the wishful thinking crowd want the 300 Amp max rating to represent continuous use, that is > 3 hours. They then calculate the non-continuous rating as 300/0.8 = 375 Amps. But of course, that is not what the adapter says.

Until Tesla tells me otherwise, I'll happily live within the 300 Amp limit.

The new LR and Plaid Model S (and X) refresh cars have battery packs designed for around 50V higher and so these cars can indeed get over 200 kW using a CCS adapter. This is a photo taken by an owner
posted on TMC awhile back getting 211 kW:

As for the supposed 300A limit, if that were truly the peak as opposed to the continuous amperage limit then you couldn’t use it at chargers labeled as “150 kW” either since those dispensers output up to 350A. That would seem like an implausible limitation.

 

[TravelFree]

Frankly, for some of us, this all seems a bit complicated. What I want is to drive up to a charger, to plug in quickly, to charge reasonably quickly and leave.

Stick with Tesla Superchargers. For me these other options are for when Tesla SC are not available. For some , like in LA it is finding a DCFC that you don't have to wait in line.

 

[Jeremy3292]

Yes, but you will never see 200 kW with a present day Tesla at a 500 Amp charger because the charging is rate limited way before you get to 400 Volts. The peak is more along the lines of 500*0.36 = 180 kW. That occurs in the 20 - 40% SoC range

Not sure where you got this from as there have been multiple users post pictures of getting 200 kW with the Tesla CCS adapter at various EA or other CCS charging stations...

 

[MikeGracz]

This one? (Just going by profile location - made the PlugShare hunting easy, haha) AJ's OldTown Steakhouse & Tavern | PlugShare

Freewire

Yup

 

[SageBrush]

If they have an actual safety concern, they should limit the amperage with the car's software

If a match maker has a concern that a person will burn himself, they should provide a nanny with every box.

 

[SageBrush]

As for the supposed 300A limit

It is not 'supposed,' it is written on the item and it does not say continuous.

 

[MikeGracz]

Wow, you are a real example of someone who really needs a CCS1 adapter. Glad you got it but sorry to hear that charging performance is not great. I have 0 (zero) expertise with your specific situation, however some random thoughts:

• Check with other cars using that station--what speeds are they getting?
• Or try another electric car (borrow from a friend)?
• If you can, try another Tesla with your adapter.
• Do you know of anyone else in your area with this Tesla CCS1 adapter that could be tested there?
• Temperatures (of your battery, the station itself)--has it been really cold?
• Call to the company responsible for that station--have any complaints been filed?
• What did you use before for traveling--CHAdeMO, maybe? What kind of charging speed did that provide?
• Have you used this station before (with a different cable)? What speeds did you get then?

That seems really low, since some people in the lower 48 are reporting over 150 kW sessions. Hope you can get it straightened out.

Good for you for using an electric car in Alaska!

Yeah- good advice. Reading comments on PlugShare, and speaking with EVConnect support, native CCS cars don't seem to have a problem. The temperature point is especially interesting. I will try preconditioning and see if that helps. It is odd that the car communicates and accepts a charge, but only for 1-3 minutes. I'm not ready to give up! I think that the station my have an issue, and have contacted Freewire...

 

[bro1999]

Yes, but you will never see 200 kW with a present day Tesla at a 500 Amp charger because the charging is rate limited way before you get to 400 Volts. The peak is more along the lines of 500*0.36 = 180 kW. That occurs in the 20 - 40% SoC range

But back to the question at hand: the wishful thinking crowd want the 300 Amp max rating to represent continuous use, that is > 3 hours. They then calculate the non-continuous rating as 300/0.8 = 375 Amps. But of course, that is not what the adapter says.

Until Tesla tells me otherwise, I'll happily live within the 300 Amp limit.

I have a SR+ so using a DCFC rated higher than 150 kW would barely even make a difference. Assuming max charging rate for a SR+ is 170 kW, I'd barely be saving any time using a 350 kW station vs 150.