Well, this isn't a simple change. There has to be an adapter for CCS-to-Tesla (haven't checked to see whether this is available or not) as well as the ability for a non-Tesla owner to use a Tesla account to be able to pay, since there is no capability at the SC station to pay - so they'd need a slimmed-down version of the app to support this. I'm not sure how they are doing it in the European countries where it's being piloted, but of course, they didn't need to make physical changes at the SC stations since they already use CCS. And I think Elon wants to tap into some Federal money to expand the SC network and of course to do that, they need to support ALL EV's.
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CCS Adapter - ?
- Thread starter Neil M
- Start date
mackgriggs
Member
Yeah, they just need to come out with an adapter. They already have a tesla app that is being used by non-tesla cars in europe. Looks like pricing model is similar to electrify america where you either pay a higher one time use or a monthly fee for lower per kwh.
insideevs.com
www.tesla.com
Norway: More Tesla Superchargers Available To Non-Tesla EVs
Tesla has opened more Supercharging stations for non-Tesla electric vehicles in Norway, which is another step to making the network available for the general public.
insideevs.com
Non-Tesla Supercharger Pilot | Tesla Support
Launched in November 2021, our Non-Tesla Supercharger pilot will continue to expand to new sites and countries in support of our mission to accelerate the world’s transition to sustainable energy.
gr8tdane24
Member
I got 183 on a 350kW EA charger, 23% SOC with preconditioned battery.
The kicker was some hilarious sentry mode footage of another Tesla owner who pulled up to the charger next to me thinking he could charge, only to be flabbergasted by the CCS adapter connected to my car. This is a prime example of the average Tesla owner in the USA that has no idea that this adapter exists.
Midnightsun
Active Member
Hmmm, that would be me the first time I pulled into a non Tesla charger almost 2 years ago to see if I could charge only to realize the J1772 adapter does not work with Chademo or CCS. I have learned how these things work now, learning curve for all and quite normal when one has never done this before. The case mentioned was even worse as the guy was baited with a Tesla plugged into it.Or how to charge their car, apparently....
Clark_Kent
Member
Yes. There are CCS1-to-Tesla (North American TPC proprietary connector) adapters (1 Tesla product; 2 third-party products). The Tesla adapter is available from South Korea. (Much-discussed on TMC.)
No Tesla-to-CCS1 adapter yet, as far as I know.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
This discussion applies to NA. The Tesla OEM CCS1 to Tesla unit is a passive adapter which works for Teslas that are CCS enabled. An adapter that allows CCS1 cars to charge at a Tesla SC would have to be an active adapter, similar to the Lectron CCS1 adapter that tricks a Tesla into thinking the source is CHAdeMO. Non-Tesla BEVs have no way to presently communicate with a SC, unless an active adapter does the handshaking
Exelion
Member
No way to get around this by using a phone app (which Tesla can make/modify) to designate and turn on the charging handle? So there's more to it than just that? Hard to wrap my head around that Tesla -> CCS1 is a passive adapter, but the other way around isn't.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
If for example, GM licenced the proprietary charging protocol that Tesla uses, GM could modify the Bolt's electronics to accept a passive adapter. Recent Teslas are smart enough to handle TPC, CCS1 and CHAdeMO, but other NA BEVs either are only CCS1 or CHAdeMO.
I assume that there actually could be a passive adapter that lets CCS type 1 cars charge at Tesla superchargers but it would require Tesla to update the superchargers to understand CCS. They have already done this in Europe for CCS type 2 cars. Since CCS types 1 and 2 use the same electrical signaling and higher-level protocols it seems likely that Tesla will use the same supercharger upgrade in North America that they already use in Europe. So, it’s likely just a matter of going to each supercharger cabinet and swapping a circuit board.
I’m not sure if there will actually be an adapter. Months ago Elon said there would be one but I think more recently he said Tesla would be adding CCS cables to the existing North American charging pedestals.
jabloomf1230
Minister of Silly Walks
Exelion
Member
Which would cost more? Adding CCS cables to Tesla pedestals vs. selling Tesla > CCS1 adapters for CCS1 cars? I think the CCS cable retrofit would cost more. It would take technicians time to go to each site and retrofit pedestals. And in the beginning, not all pedestals would be CCS1 capable. Vs selling adapters, for a profit, (make some extra cash), and every CCS1 car could use every single Tesla pedestal from the get-go.
Exelion
Member
Thinking about this a little further, I think what Tesla is going to do will depend on how much money is given out, and the exact requirements.
For example:
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any site, then obviously the easiest, and cheapest way is to pick up the phone, call Electrify America, EVGo, or whoever, and have them install a few of their chargers on the supercharger premises. Done.
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any charging cabinet, then sell adapters.
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any cabinet without having to purchase anything extra, then retrofit the pedestals, but then weigh that against how much $$$ they're taking in for that. It might not even be worth taking the $$$ if the cost is too high.
Does anyone know what the exact requirements are?
For example:
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any site, then obviously the easiest, and cheapest way is to pick up the phone, call Electrify America, EVGo, or whoever, and have them install a few of their chargers on the supercharger premises. Done.
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any charging cabinet, then sell adapters.
If the requirement is that any EV be able to charge from any cabinet without having to purchase anything extra, then retrofit the pedestals, but then weigh that against how much $$$ they're taking in for that. It might not even be worth taking the $$$ if the cost is too high.
Does anyone know what the exact requirements are?
I can see advantages to both approaches. I’m guessing they will do passive adapters because they will be simpler to support in the long run. They can still make plenty of money selling them if they want. Or, no adapters and just add CCS cables to new installations that require CCS support in order to qualify for government installation subsidies. I am betting against Tesla selling an active adapter.
The current requirements for the money being distributed to the states is that each site have at least 4 stalls with permanent CCS cables and each can delivery at least 150kW all the time. (So V2 Supercharger sites can't meet the requirements at all, even with CCS cables added.)
But it is unlikely that every state, or even many of them, would farm out the work to Tesla. Some states will decide to do it themselves, others will put a RFP out to get interested parties to do some/all of the work for them. It will be interesting to see how the money gets spent. (Or wasted.)
More about the requirements has been talked about in this thread: Biden administration wants to standardize electric vehicle charging, like gas stations (Like that the stations have to be located ~50 miles apart, unless an exception is granted.)
the adapters will lead to a lot of uninformed EV owners clogging tesla bays unproductively, plus it now clouds the reporting to all the Tesla folks about open stalls. The retrofit also seems less productive than adding to new stations or stalls, though no matter how boldly you label them as CCS, people won't notice. I didn't even notice 150 vs 250 signs on the Kettleman stop until after I started juicing.
The best scenario for the company, but not necessarily the requirements is to sell an active adapter to which billing info could be attached. Maybe it's the best toe dipping route on top of what is being done in the EU.
But these would be newly installed charging , right? So Tesla could, if they wanted, use V2 supercharging hardware with one charger cabinet per pedestal (rather than 2 pedestals with sharing).
