I would think, given your stated concern, that it would be better to install CCS cables on only some supercharger pedestals and to segregate them off to one corner. If you give them adapters then they can use any supercharger stall and they will end up making a mess since CCS cars have charging ports in differing locations which means they may have park weirdly in order to use Tesla’s short native plug cable length and this may block Tesla cars from using some adjacent stalls.
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CCS Adapter - ?
- Thread starter Neil M
- Start date
I know there are those car owners that just buy and drive. I feel that if you are not on TMC though and following a few threads, you are missing out on the ownership and driving experience.
How would the adapters lead to messing up the open stall data? They would have to active the stall by using the Tesla app, so it knows what stall they are using. (And how would an active adapter make it better?)
everydaychris
Active Member
Midnightsun
Active Member
Tesla uses a CCS2 cord and a Tesla cord on the same unit in Europe so I must assume they will do the same here except it would be a CCS1 cord and Tesla cord. Dual Cords
Im guessing they will switch to dual cords in the US for another reason: The Supercharger cable is incredibly short. Like you need to make sure you are backed pretty freaking well into that parking space for it to reach.
Most EV's are built with the charge port at the front or rear corner of the car. But many like the Taycan and MME have the port right behind the front wheel, which is the worst location in my opinion. For a Supercharger cable to comfortably reach these ports it probably needs to be 10-12' long. Much like the ones at the EA CCS chargers:
I feel bad for Non-Tesla EV's, lol... In the last two weeks, I was roadtripping up and down almost the entire length of the 5 freeway from SoCal to Canada, and subscribed to EA Pass+ for this journey.... What a learning experience, lol...
The shear number of busted EA chargers is mind-boggling... According to some of the plugshare checkins, some of the chargers at the stations I went to, have been busted for over 2 years... A common problem I had, was that the charger would not recognize that a car was connected on a handle, making it so I would have to wait for it to timeout, then use the other handle on the same charger... Another common problem I had, as well as others, is that the charger would just crap out and either abort the session, or it would peak at something ridiculously low like 30 kW. One time I was at a Walmart, and I plugged in on a 350kW charger, and it ramped up to near 190kW. Then it dropped to 30kW, and said it would take an hour and a half to charge... I disconnected, and tried again on the other handle, but it wouldn't recognize my car. Luckily, the other 350 stall was open, so I switched, and it immediately ramped up to 189 and stayed there for a bit...
Another time, I was at the same safeway on two different occasions, and happened to be using the same stall both times... I noticed at least 3 cars try to use the stall next to me, and then switch stalls... Just yeterday I was there, and I saw the guy walk over and look at the other stall's charging progress, so I talked to the guy, and told him I thought his stall may be fubarred. He said it was only outputting 5 kW. I told him I was almost done, so he could have my stall. I told him I was getting 187 kW from it. This particular journey was cool, becuase this charger was full, and I was surrounded by Mustangs and an ID.4.. Turns out we were all going the same direction, because we had a pseudo posse going, as at my next 2 charging stops, I noticed they were all following me, lol... I was always the first to arrive, and the first to leave... And each time, while I was charging, the same two mustangs and ID4 arrived. By the second stop, we started chatting while charging. At one of the stops while chatting, they asked where we were planning our next charging stop to be, as one of them pointed our there were four of us, but at the next stop, 2 of the chargers were busted.. I told them I would use the Tesla Supercharger that is a block away. I went to the SC, and it was empty... While charging, I saw the EA station I was originally going to go to was full... Since it was only a block away, I decided to do a drive by on my way out... Sure enough, I saw the same mustangs there since I remembered their plates. They recognized me driving by, as they flashed their lights at me when I crept by. That was pretty cool...
But anyways, of the 16 EA charging sessions I logged, I had to switch stalls at least 4 times, and had to switch handles at least half the time... And damn, some of those EA stations are quite the trek from the freeway. While driving during mid-week, I didn't have any problems finding an open EA stall... However, driving thru on a weekend... Every single EA station I went to was full while I was driving to it, or became full while I was there.. Even when I was in the city, many of the urban located EA chargers were full, especially during lunch. At one of them, there was a SC not far away, that I had my brother use, since his car doesn't support CCS, and that SC was wide open..
Of all the places I thought I would be able to use CCS the most was Canada, but from what I could tell, most of the CCS chargers near where I was in BC were all 50kW chargers, and seemed to only have one or two charging stations... The only CCS chargers I could find that were > 100kW was a PetroCanada along Trans-Canada 1, but was quite far from where I was... But luckily there was a nice 20 stall supercharger a few blocks from where I was staying.
Of all the EA stations I went to, only the one I went to in Everett seemed "large" as it had like 8 or 10 stalls... Most all of the other EA locations I went to up and down the interstate 5, only had 4 charging stalls.... So to see 4 charging stalls, with one, two, and sometimes 3 chargers broken, is quite surprising
The shear number of busted EA chargers is mind-boggling... According to some of the plugshare checkins, some of the chargers at the stations I went to, have been busted for over 2 years... A common problem I had, was that the charger would not recognize that a car was connected on a handle, making it so I would have to wait for it to timeout, then use the other handle on the same charger... Another common problem I had, as well as others, is that the charger would just crap out and either abort the session, or it would peak at something ridiculously low like 30 kW. One time I was at a Walmart, and I plugged in on a 350kW charger, and it ramped up to near 190kW. Then it dropped to 30kW, and said it would take an hour and a half to charge... I disconnected, and tried again on the other handle, but it wouldn't recognize my car. Luckily, the other 350 stall was open, so I switched, and it immediately ramped up to 189 and stayed there for a bit...
Another time, I was at the same safeway on two different occasions, and happened to be using the same stall both times... I noticed at least 3 cars try to use the stall next to me, and then switch stalls... Just yeterday I was there, and I saw the guy walk over and look at the other stall's charging progress, so I talked to the guy, and told him I thought his stall may be fubarred. He said it was only outputting 5 kW. I told him I was almost done, so he could have my stall. I told him I was getting 187 kW from it. This particular journey was cool, becuase this charger was full, and I was surrounded by Mustangs and an ID.4.. Turns out we were all going the same direction, because we had a pseudo posse going, as at my next 2 charging stops, I noticed they were all following me, lol... I was always the first to arrive, and the first to leave... And each time, while I was charging, the same two mustangs and ID4 arrived. By the second stop, we started chatting while charging. At one of the stops while chatting, they asked where we were planning our next charging stop to be, as one of them pointed our there were four of us, but at the next stop, 2 of the chargers were busted.. I told them I would use the Tesla Supercharger that is a block away. I went to the SC, and it was empty... While charging, I saw the EA station I was originally going to go to was full... Since it was only a block away, I decided to do a drive by on my way out... Sure enough, I saw the same mustangs there since I remembered their plates. They recognized me driving by, as they flashed their lights at me when I crept by. That was pretty cool...
But anyways, of the 16 EA charging sessions I logged, I had to switch stalls at least 4 times, and had to switch handles at least half the time... And damn, some of those EA stations are quite the trek from the freeway. While driving during mid-week, I didn't have any problems finding an open EA stall... However, driving thru on a weekend... Every single EA station I went to was full while I was driving to it, or became full while I was there.. Even when I was in the city, many of the urban located EA chargers were full, especially during lunch. At one of them, there was a SC not far away, that I had my brother use, since his car doesn't support CCS, and that SC was wide open..
Of all the places I thought I would be able to use CCS the most was Canada, but from what I could tell, most of the CCS chargers near where I was in BC were all 50kW chargers, and seemed to only have one or two charging stations... The only CCS chargers I could find that were > 100kW was a PetroCanada along Trans-Canada 1, but was quite far from where I was... But luckily there was a nice 20 stall supercharger a few blocks from where I was staying.
Of all the EA stations I went to, only the one I went to in Everett seemed "large" as it had like 8 or 10 stalls... Most all of the other EA locations I went to up and down the interstate 5, only had 4 charging stalls.... So to see 4 charging stalls, with one, two, and sometimes 3 chargers broken, is quite surprising
Oh yeah, and just to add... In the beginning, I was navigating to a nearby SC, so that it would precondition... After the first couple EA stops, I stopped doing this, as it became very confusing to have the car nav going one place, and my phone going another, with the two voice prompts overlapping each other. I thought it would be easier at places where the SC is colocated with an EA charger, but not really, because the EA charger was like around the back, hidden away so I couldn't find it.
But anyways, I found that either becuase the number of miles I was driving, or the temperature in California, made it so even if I navigated to a SC, it wasn't preconditioning the battery either, as I still hit a few SCs here and there, so I just set the car navigation to go to the EA charger directly when using EA..... I was still able to pull down near 190 kW from a 350 kW EA charger, and near 150 kW from a 150 kW EA charger, without preconditioning, even tho on one of the legs, it was raining and in the 60's. From what I can tell of my EA/SC charging in OR/WA/CA, if the temps are > 80 degrees, it seemed preconditioning wasn't necessary, even if I plugged in for the first time in the morning, but if it's in the 70's or lower, it will make a difference, at least for the first leg... When I started this roadtrip, it was in the 70's and sunny, and I navigated to a SC, and it started preconditioning well before I got to the destination... However, once I was in California, and the temps were in the 90's, I noticed it wasn't preconditioning anymore, even when going to an actual SC...
Also, just an anecdote, but it seems like the car ramps down charge rate faster on CCS then it does on Tesla SC. I was watching my charge rate, and even tho I started at near 190 kW on a 350 kW EA charger, it ramped down quickly as my SoC got near 50%, whereas when I was at a v3 supercharger, my car seemed to hold much higher charge rate for much longer.
It also seems like CCS will only pull down close to peak at much lower SoC than a v3 supercharger.. I only pulled 190 kW on EA if I was in the teens... @ 21% SoC I was only pulling 180 kW. By 30%, I was pulling like 160 kW. When I was on a v3 Supercharger, even when I plugged in at 27% or so SoC, it pulled down 250 kW briefly, then held a higher charge rate than the EA charger did.
But the EA chargers were definitely faster than the v2 superchargers I used, even the 150 kW EA chargers, I was able to pull down 149 kW for quite a while....
But anyways, I found that either becuase the number of miles I was driving, or the temperature in California, made it so even if I navigated to a SC, it wasn't preconditioning the battery either, as I still hit a few SCs here and there, so I just set the car navigation to go to the EA charger directly when using EA..... I was still able to pull down near 190 kW from a 350 kW EA charger, and near 150 kW from a 150 kW EA charger, without preconditioning, even tho on one of the legs, it was raining and in the 60's. From what I can tell of my EA/SC charging in OR/WA/CA, if the temps are > 80 degrees, it seemed preconditioning wasn't necessary, even if I plugged in for the first time in the morning, but if it's in the 70's or lower, it will make a difference, at least for the first leg... When I started this roadtrip, it was in the 70's and sunny, and I navigated to a SC, and it started preconditioning well before I got to the destination... However, once I was in California, and the temps were in the 90's, I noticed it wasn't preconditioning anymore, even when going to an actual SC...
Also, just an anecdote, but it seems like the car ramps down charge rate faster on CCS then it does on Tesla SC. I was watching my charge rate, and even tho I started at near 190 kW on a 350 kW EA charger, it ramped down quickly as my SoC got near 50%, whereas when I was at a v3 supercharger, my car seemed to hold much higher charge rate for much longer.
It also seems like CCS will only pull down close to peak at much lower SoC than a v3 supercharger.. I only pulled 190 kW on EA if I was in the teens... @ 21% SoC I was only pulling 180 kW. By 30%, I was pulling like 160 kW. When I was on a v3 Supercharger, even when I plugged in at 27% or so SoC, it pulled down 250 kW briefly, then held a higher charge rate than the EA charger did.
But the EA chargers were definitely faster than the v2 superchargers I used, even the 150 kW EA chargers, I was able to pull down 149 kW for quite a while....
So the other day I forgot to plug in my 3 overnight when it was sitting at 40% SOC with my daily commute waiting for me (usually uses about 20% roundtrip). Knowing I had place to go immediately after work and no time to charge at home (plus I would have had to charge during expensive peak hours on my EV TOU plan) I decided to stop by an EA location at a Walmart 5 miles from my house to test out the adapter. Arrived at 19%, and after fuddling around trying to get a charge session started on a 150 kW plug, finally had the juice flowing via the CCS adapter.
Started out at about 130 kW, then ramped up to 140 before slowly tapering to the mid-90's till I unplugged after 6 minutes (only needed a "top-off").
The EA station said it was cranking out 143 kW at its peak.
Started out at about 130 kW, then ramped up to 140 before slowly tapering to the mid-90's till I unplugged after 6 minutes (only needed a "top-off").
The EA station said it was cranking out 143 kW at its peak.
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Sunvalleylaw
Member
Given the shortness of the SuperCharger cables, it would be nice also, as I have one damaged eye and reduced depth perception, to have the camera and screen tell you when you are close enough. Yes, more idiot proofness. But helpful I would think. The first time I charged at a SuperCharger, after I picked up my rig in Boise and hopped over the the nearby SuperCharger to make sure I had enough for the about 150 miles home, it took me two tries to get close enough. Partly, because I did not know how short those cables were, and I had just picked up the car and was not really used to backing up yet.
Oh don't feel bad. My eyes work perfectly fine (thanks to contacts) and I've backed in too far a couple of times.. so much that I hit something with my hatchback when trying to open it while charging lol. If I had to guess those Supercharging cables are only about 6ft long. So you figure if you get the car about 3 feet of the Supercharger.. you only have about 2 feet of wiggle room to get it plugged in. I don't Supercharger often.. maybe once every 2 months or so. So when I do back into a SC spot.. I've definitely parked too close.. or too far away.. and had to get back in the car to adjust a little.
Sunvalleylaw
Member
Yeah, I think they could program the proximity sensors to help with that more specifically. Getting the hang of it and the information you can see on the screen now a little better, getting in and out of the garage. Loving my new rig so far! My CCS from Korea will get here one of these days I guess! I don't really need it in the meantime. In fact, I am waiting for the 14-50's to come back in, as I forgot they car didn't come with one, and I have a 14-50 installed to charge. Right now, I am just using the regular old GFI outlet next to the 14-50 in my garage, and doing just fine for my limited weekly driving needs. No big car trips coming before the adapters are likely to arrive, so should be good.
in my limited SC experience (one SF->LA->SF trip, the stations all seemed to have the 2" bumpers to indicate where the rear wheel should stop. This works for the 4 Tesla models, but won't for the larger population.
A few problems. I presume that adapters won't be provided, but owners will need to have, just as we do for CCS. So many will show up without it. They won't ever plug in, but will spend 3-10 minutes figuring it out, during which time the stall doesn't report as in use. The other note someone made about the orientation problem also looms, as well as the gotcha with their short cables. I agree that this last concern would likely drive them to deploy a second CCS cable over the adapter route.
mackgriggs
Member
Yep....just expand the navigation directions by swiping down, then click the settings link, then mute. Mine is actually always muted. I use autopilot 90% of the time in town, on roads I already know by heart, so a navigation voice would be super annoying.
I created a video on how to purchase from Harum.io and why you would need one.
Key reasons why you should have one:
1. Cheaper to charge using the CCS adapter than most Tesla Superchargers
2. Gives you more charging options
Key reasons why you should have one:
1. Cheaper to charge using the CCS adapter than most Tesla Superchargers
2. Gives you more charging options
Thanks for the video instruction!
One thing to note is that most CCS chargers are the same or more expensive then the superchargers (at least major metropolitan areas). So, not for money saving purpose.
It's most cost effective if you pay for Pass+. You can just pay $4 then cancel, and it will be good for a month. I did that when driving from Canada to Los Angeles. I saved almost 30 cents per kWh during peak times.
The entire point of getting the adapter is "more charging options". As the guy who made the video pointed out, cheaper charging is just one of those options. Nobody is saying that CCS is ALWAYS cheaper than Supercharger.
That said as Supercharging continues to get increasingly more expensive (now $0.44 cents per kWh in Maryland/Delaware).. yes CCS is often cheaper. As you pointed out for anyone subscribing to the monthly EA Pass+ the cost to charge immediately drops to $0.31 per kWh.. Or about HALF the price of daytime Supercharger rate in places like California. It's also easy to forget literally 2/3rds of all EV sales in the US.. happen in California. This means the CCS adapter immediately gives most American Tesla owners access to cheaper-than-Supercharger rates.
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