CCS Charging in NA

[Reeler]

The Tesla supercharger network is getting to be unusable when you need it most (i.e., holiday weekend travel). Europe has a CSS adapter that allows charging with the non-proprietary networks (https://electrek.co/2019/04/03/tesla-ccs-adapter-first-look/) for $190. These folks sell a CSS (NA config) to CSS-2 (EP config) adapter: US to European CCS Combo 1 to CCS Combo 2 EV Quick Charger Adapter – EVSE Adapters for $880.

Could this be the solution to allow CSS charging of Tesla cars in North America? Has anyone tried this?

 

[cwerdna]

First off, it's CCS (Combined Charging System - Wikipedia) not CSS (Cascading Style Sheets - Wikipedia). Can the OP or a moderator fix the title?

Doubtful. I don't think any European Tesla S, X or 3 has ever shipped with the same inlet as the North America Model S, X and 3. If they have, whatever's compatible w/European CCS (Combo2) likely doesn't have a North American Tesla inlet.

For the time being, if you're concerned, buy/rent CHAdeMO Adapter.

 

[Reeler]

For the time being, if you're concerned, buy/rent CHAdeMO Adapter.

I have the Chademo adapter and just "enjoyed" a 26 KWh charge at a price more expensive than gasoline.

I guess it would require a third adapter: NEW! Tesla Supercharger Adapter – European to US – EVSE Adapters

With the three adapters, all qualified for fast charging, at least the pins would pass through. No idea if this kludge would work. It would run about $2K also.

 

[AEdennis]

I have the Chademo adapter and just "enjoyed" a 26 KWh charge at a price more expensive than gasoline.

I guess it would require a third adapter: NEW! Tesla Supercharger Adapter – European to US – EVSE Adapters

With the three adapters, all qualified for fast charging, at least the pins would pass through. No idea if this kludge would work. It would run about $2K also.

That EVSE Adapter is for the original NON-CCS Tesla Worldwide (mennekes-like) supercharging, not the same as CCS.

In North America, only 3rd party DC available to us is 50kW maximum CHAdeMO

 

[Reeler]

That EVSE Adapter is for the original NON-CCS Tesla Worldwide (mennekes-like) supercharging, not the same as CCS.

That is true, but it adapts to the US Tesla port while supporting supercharging. In the middle is the CCS-2 to mennekes-like adapter. At the start is the CCS-1 to CCS-2 adapter. I think that sandwich of adapters work together?????

I think you end up with a CCS-1 to US Tesla port?????

 

[David99]

A CCS for North America would be extremely useful. EA and EVgo have a substantial amount of those chargers across the US. I have used my CHADeMO adapter countless times and it has been helpful and absolutely crucial on some trips. Just 2 week ago driving a long leg between two superchargers where even charging to 100% wasn't enough to make it unless I would drive under the speed limit. I also used it on the day of the solar eclipse where Supercharger lines were several hours. I was able to use a different DC station and skip the lines.

Maybe it is a little more expensive than a supercharger, but so what. You are not just buying energy, you are paying for a convenience. If the next supercharger is 15 miles away or has a 2 hour wait I have no problem paying $5 extra. I have free supercharging yet I payed for many chargers that were just convenient.

 

[cookie99]

A CCS for North America would be extremely useful. EA and EVgo have a substantial amount of those chargers across the US. I have used my CHADeMO adapter countless times and it has been helpful and absolutely crucial on some trips. Just 2 week ago driving a long leg between two superchargers where even charging to 100% wasn't enough to make it unless I would drive under the speed limit. I also used it on the day of the solar eclipse where Supercharger lines were several hours. I was able to use a different DC station and skip the lines.

Maybe it is a little more expensive than a supercharger, but so what. You are not just buying energy, you are paying for a convenience. If the next supercharger is 15 miles away or has a 2 hour wait I have no problem paying $5 extra. I have free supercharging yet I payed for many chargers that were just convenient.

what was the drive you did where no 2 supercharger stations could reach each other?

 

[David99]

what was the drive you did where no 2 supercharger stations could reach each other?

Several times when I was pulling a trailer. Granted that is not a common case.
On a recent trip I drove from Albuquerque west to Gallup. It was a 160 mile leg. It was cold and I guess some head wind. I charged to 93% which took 1h 20 min. The car complained about driving slower and after 50 miles the recommended speed by the car was below the posted speed limit. I said screw that, drove my normal speed and stopped for a 10 min top off at a CHADeMO station in Grants. I could have made it without the extra stop going below the speed limit and then rolling in very low, but I found that that too risky. It was night and cold and any issue could have left me stranded without power. Just miss the exit in Gallup and you are forced to go 15 miles to the next one and then 15 miles back.
I have a Model S 85. Any S/X with a 60/70/75 battery would be in a worse position. A mid range Model 3 would probably be in a similar situation.

 

[AdamInFlag]

Several times when I was pulling a trailer. Granted that is not a common case.
On a recent trip I drove from Albuquerque west to Gallup. It was a 160 mile leg. It was cold and I guess some head wind. I charged to 93% which took 1h 20 min. The car complained about driving slower and after 50 miles the recommended speed by the car was below the posted speed limit. I said screw that, drove my normal speed and stopped for a 10 min top off at a CHADeMO station in Grants. I could have made it without the extra stop going below the speed limit and then rolling in very low, but I found that that too risky. It was night and cold and any issue could have left me stranded without power. Just miss the exit in Gallup and you are forced to go 15 miles to the next one and then 15 miles back.
I have a Model S 85. Any S/X with a 60/70/75 battery would be in a worse position. A mid range Model 3 would probably be in a similar situation.

There can be some incredible headwinds on this route. My family and I visited some friends up in Santa Fe last year and did some skiing. I had the skis on the roof (first and last time I'll be doing that on a road trip). We charged to about 235 mi of range in Albuquerque. I ended up rolling in to Gallup with 5 mi rated range remaining after drafting off of a semi most of the way at about 72 mph and then slowing it down to 60 mph for the last half hour or so. There are big gaps in the west that force very long supercharger stops (especially with the current chargegate situation - that trip was prior to chargegate...). Grants is an important hole to fill, and the Electrify America station has beat a supercharger. Having CCS instead of the max 50 kW CHADeMO (and only one outlet) would be nice in a lot of situations.

 

[Reeler]

Here is the specific solution I am suggesting:

1. CCS-1 to CCS-2 for $880
2. CCS-2 to Tesla Mennekes for $190
3. Tesla Mennekes to NA Tesla for $1050

Seems like the electrical pins would pass through this route. Not sure of there is special EP software to allow the CCS-2 adapter to work with the Tesla Mennekes connector there. Tesla may lock down the NA Tesla port's software to not allow CSS signaling.

 

[MP3Mike]

Here is the specific solution I am suggesting:

1. CCS-1 to CCS-2 for $880
2. CCS-2 to Tesla Mennekes for $190
3. Tesla Mennekes to NA Tesla for $1050

Seems like the electrical pins would pass through this route. Not sure of there is special EP software to allow the CCS-2 adapter to work with the Tesla Mennekes connector there. Tesla may lock down the NA Tesla port's software to not allow CSS signaling.

Good luck getting Tesla to sell you the adapter... People in non-supported EU cars can't even buy it. Not to mention older S&X vehicles have to have a hardware retrofit to be able to use it. Who knows if the NA cars have the necessary hardware...

 

[ewoodrick]

The Tesla supercharger network is getting to be unusable when you need it most (i.e., holiday weekend travel). Europe has a CSS adapter that allows charging with the non-proprietary networks (First look at Tesla's highly-anticipated CCS adapter - Electrek) for $190. These folks sell a CSS (NA config) to CSS-2 (EP config) adapter: US to European CCS Combo 1 to CCS Combo 2 EV Quick Charger Adapter – EVSE Adapters for $880.

Could this be the solution to allow CSS charging of Tesla cars in North America? Has anyone tried this?

What is so interesting is that you think that the CCS network is so much better.
First, as others have mentioned, there is no CCS for US cars.
But there is a CHAdeMO adapter. And if you look at all the DC Fast Chargers, you will probably notice that wherever there is a CCS, there's a CHAdeMO plug. That's what the Leafs use.

But the funny part is that you think that the other solutions are a solution. Take a look at all of the DC Fast charger locations around. There are a lot, but

• They are primarily in cities, not on the roads
• There is often 1, maybe 2 pedestals at each location
• They are expensive
• They are unreliable

So, they aren't where you often need them and where they are, they can fill really fast, if they work.

 

[Reeler]

What is so interesting is that you think that the CCS network is so much better.

It is a given that some may not have this problem, but here in the middle of the country with harsh winters, there are plenty of trips that are just not possible with the Tesla network. Add in that some tow things with their Model X or have a smaller battery, or travel when the supercharger network is full and you will quickly realize that more options are better.

If Tesla just released the CCS-1 adapter, these issues would evaporate. Apparently, the puppetmaster has other plans for the Tesla puppets. Maybe they have a large stock of the Chademo adapters that will become worthless once a cheaper CCS-1 adapter is available. No idea why they would punish us in North America while the Europeans have the freedom to use non-proprietary CCS-2.

 

[ewoodrick]

It is a given that some may not have this problem, but here in the middle of the country with harsh winters, there are plenty of trips that are just not possible with the Tesla network. Add in that some tow things with their Model X or have a smaller battery, or travel when the supercharger network is full and you will quickly realize that more options are better.

If Tesla just released the CCS-1 adapter, these issues would evaporate. Apparently, the puppetmaster has other plans for the Tesla puppets. Maybe they have a large stock of the Chademo adapters that will become worthless once a cheaper CCS-1 adapter is available. No idea why they would punish us in North America while the Europeans have the freedom to use non-proprietary CCS-2.

So, how many locations have CCS and not CHAdeMO? Or are you just really complaining about the size and price?

 

[ucmndd]

So, how many locations have CCS and not CHAdeMO? Or are you just really complaining about the size and price?

Few if any, although the main charging network competitor at this point (Electrify America) is installing CCS plugs at an 8:1 (or worse) ratio vs. CHAdeMO. Each EA site has precisely one CHAdeMO charger.

 

[David99]

So, how many locations have CCS and not CHAdeMO? Or are you just really complaining about the size and price?

A stations have all CCS plugs and one CHADeMO, that's it/ CHADeMO is a dying standard in the US. Just a week ago I charged in Denver at an EA station. All plugs were available only the one CHADeMO was taken so I had to wait. CCS is the standard in the US moving forward,

 

[cwerdna]

(Electrify America) is installing CCS plugs at an 8:1 (or worse) ratio vs. CHAdeMO. Each EA site has precisely one CHAdeMO charger.

Gotta love how VW subsidiary Electrify America is stacking the deck in favor of their own vehicles. If they really cared about provided DC FCing to all EVs, they'd have a more even mix of SAE Combo vs. CHAdeMO instead of having a single CHAdeMO on a single station. If that station has probs, can't use CHAdeMO. Thanks a lot.

I don't know of any other major DC FC provider that supports both standards that is doing that.

If US Tesla drivers really want to use non-Supercharger DC FCs, obviously the only choice is CHAdeMO. If EA is adding stations in your area and stacking the deck like I've seen them do, tell EA you're not happy about it and that you'd like to see a more even ratio. Make sure they make a record of it. Maybe if enough people complain, it might bubble up to their top 10 (or whatever) complaint list. That might yield better results for the time being than wishing for a SAE Combo adapter for US vehicles or stringing together several adapters that probably won't work and likely won't mechanically fit.

Seek out other CHAdeMO providers via Plugshare and charging network apps (e.g. EVgo, ChargePoint, etc.)

 

[ucmndd]

Gotta love how VW subsidiary Electrify America is stacking the deck in favor of their own vehicles. If they really cared about provided DC FCing to all EVs

They obviously don’t care one lick about providing charging to all EVs, any more than Tesla does. The only reason the CHAdeMO stations are there at all is because they were mandated by the dieselgate settlement.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

They obviously don’t care one lick about providing charging to all EVs, any more than Tesla does. The only reason the CHAdeMO stations are there at all is because they were mandated by the dieselgate settlement.

Imagine if EA would install Tesla connectors on one or two stalls per location as they do with CHAdeMo now. They could easily double or triple the number of charging sessions, probably even more! They are leaving money on the table by purposely not supporting the most popular level 3 charging format in the US and it wouldn't really cost them much to do.

 

[AEdennis]

EA is only offering ONE CHAdeMO because they are required to only provide one for the terms of their settlement (and formation.) Ionity, in Europe doesn't even offer CHAdeMO in its network...