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CCS Charging options for Model 3

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by widodh, Feb 7, 2015.

  1. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I know, nothing is known yet, but just thinking about this.

    For the US and some other markets Tesla created their own connector, but the EU and other markets use a modified Type 2 charging port.

    With that in mind, it could be possible that Tesla modifies the chargeport in such a way that it accepts:
    - 22kW 3-phase AC
    - 50kW CCS
    - 120kW SuperCharging

    That way a users would never have to haul adapters with, just plug and play.

    The US chargeport is a different story though, since they can't simple give Model 3 a non-compatible chargeport, but a second port with just CCS would be possible.

    I personally don't like the idea of adapters. I think they are unsafe and not easy to work with.
     
  2. GSP

    GSP Member

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    I like the simplicity of plug and play, without adapters. Adapters are fine for me, but a stumbling block for mass market buyers.

    I think it would be smart to have one CCS inlet for the Model III in Europe, and both CCS and Tesla inlets in North America. That would help Tesla meet their 500,000 car per year sales goal.

    Tesla listened to widodh about 3-phase, thankfully. I hope they give this suggestion serious consideration as well.

    GSP
     
  3. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Well, I personally think they will have to.

    Assume they indeed sell 500k cars anually, they also have to sell 500k adapters each year!

    In the US they could add a CSS port in the other taillight. In the EU it could indeed be integrated into one charging port.

    I'm not going to write another letter to Elon Musk ;)
     
  4. J1mbo

    J1mbo Member

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    This is almost a no-brainer. The physical differences are minimal, I imagine it just needs software support in the car. Be great if it has already been done for EU Model X!
     
  5. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    True, it is. But I really hope that Tesla does this.

    CCS is going to support >100kW as well, so that would be very useful for Model 3 drivers.
     
  6. Model 3

    Model 3 Active Member

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    Totally agree :)


    In the EU it could have an CSS port in one tail-light, and a ChaDemo in the other ;)
     
  7. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    Thing is though, while CCS "will" support >100kW, none of the installed units actually do.
    Whereas Tesla is going crazy installing Superchargers all over the place - they are also installing them as a network designed to be driven between.
    Most importantly they are maintaining them - unlike many of the CCS or Chademo units.
     
  8. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    I agree a Tesla variant of CCS is the route Tesla should take in Europe. Supporting 22 kW AC, 50 kW CCS and Supercharging means that you have an extremely versatile charging system. It means that you can charge using basically any EV charging station in Europe. 22 kW AC and 50 kW CCS is great for destination charging, while Supercharing is great for long distance travel.

    It allows appartment dwellers to buy a Model 3 without coming into conflict with Tesla's "long distance only" policy on the superchargers, when they need the occasional local boost to their range.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, it's unlikely the Model 3 will have more than 11 kW AC charging, so 50 kW CCS is actually 4.5 times faster. That's a lot more managable for destination charging. On a 60 kWh Model 3, it's the difference between having to spend 4.5 hours charging and merely spending 1 hour.
     
  9. ratsbew

    ratsbew Member

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    As the market leader Tesla has the power to either help support or kill CCS. Personally I'd rather see Tesla stick with their proprietary connector and allow others to adopt their standard.
     
  10. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    I wouldn't bet on the Tesla connector in Europe displacing CHAdeMO and CCS. To put it this way, thus far this year, Tesla has sold approximately 3100 vehicles in Norway. Whereas VW has sold about 7300 CCS capable cars and BMW has sold about 1100 CCS capable cars. That's almost a 3:1 lead for CCS. It might be more even when considering all of Europe, but I think the number of CCS capable car models will increase faster than Tesla will add new models.

    I think the best strategy here for Tesla is to reach a compromise, not to stick with their guns. (In the US, though, all possibilities still exist. Tesla has a very strong base, and CCS is barely off the ground.)
     
  11. Twiglett

    Twiglett Single pedal driver

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    Thing is though, if number of cars is the basis then it's really close between Chademo and CCS.
    Until that is sorted out then it seems like sticking to the Tesla connector with different adapters is the simplest until a real universal connector is decided on.
    Maybe an optional, extra cost built in would work, but that would be pretty expensive to develop.
    Especially as they don't yet have a CCS adapter......
     
  12. Yggdrasill

    Yggdrasill Active Member

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    CHAdeMO is DC only. So you need two plugs. No way that will be the solution going forward.

    The only contenders in Europe is the Tesla Type 2 and CCS. I think a merger of these two standards would be the best solution. But if not, my money's on CCS.

    The only contenders in the US is the Tesla connector and CCS. A merger isn't possible, and the Tesla connector has a good lead, so my money's on the Tesla connector.
     
  13. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Physically it is no problem in Europe to make a inlet which supports CCS and SuperCharging. I really hope Tesla goes that way.

    All DC chargers I see support both CCS and CHAdeMO, so that is no problem either.

    CCS can go up to 200A as well, so Tesla just has to make sure the car can handle it, the chargers will follow.

    CCS will go over 100kW in the future, they know that 50kW is not enough.
     
  14. MichelB

    MichelB ICE driver but TesIa fan

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    There is also bound to be an option to convert CHAdeMO into CCS with an adapter, it might not be the most elegant way but it also works now on the model s in a similar fashion.
    Giving a car several power inlets will make it more challenging for the designers to make a nice looking but functional car.
    CCS and Tesla supercharging can also be combined, as they now combine normal type2 with supercharging in the same port.
    Non the less CCS is going to be the new standard in Europe so Brussels said.
     
  15. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    What I meant is a inlet like this:

    ccs_vw-e-up.jpg

    ccs-dc-charging-sheet.jpg

    Tesla uses "DC-Mid" for their SuperCharging, with that I mean, those pins.

    But CCS could go over the "DC-High" pins.

    One onlet which accepts:

    - 3-phase AC
    - Tesla SuperCharging
    - CCS

    Would be great for European Model 3 and maybe a improved version of S and X.
     
  16. GSP

    GSP Member

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    CCS would be a much more attractive option in Europe if "DC-mid" (see above) was officially extended by ISO to support the same current (and power) that Tesla uses at their European superchargers. The smaller connector and inlet is nicer for customers to use and car designers to package than the industrial sized "DC-high" option.

    GSP
     
  17. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I agree, but that means you would have to convert all current chargers and cars out their.

    I really don't care that much about the size of the connector, I want to charge.
     
  18. smac

    smac Active Member

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    The problem with that is the standards are for sustained rating. Personally I think Tesla are playing with tolerances based on tapering and because they own both the car and the charging equipment there are no liability issues in this approach.

    IF a car came out that had much bigger batteries and third party charge points could maintain supercharger levels of power, it could well lead to the connector overheating, and no clear delineation of responsibility.

    Mennekes are heavily involved in the design of type-2 / CCS and are pretty much regarded as the gold standard in design of connectors, and I'm sure they know this hence the addition of more highly rated DC pins. Whilst there was some speculation that the Tesla type-2 port on EU cars was somehow deeper than standard, I think people have since disproved this by taking micrometers to the cars or taking i3's to Superchargers and finding physically they fit.


    As for CCS on the 3, I think it will be forced with EU type regulations for new vehicles. (I believe this happens in 2017). Lets not forget there will be lots of lobbying to the EU from German industry, who are all behind CCS ;)
     
  19. MartinAustin

    MartinAustin Active Member

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    I think this is going to become one of Tesla's greatest advantages over the competition.

    Rather like Apple, who appear to be able to produce the best stuff due to engineering their own hardware-software combinations, whereas Microsoft and Google just sit and let a myriad of external companies put the pieces together and hope to produce the state-of-the-art.
     
  20. smac

    smac Active Member

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    I agree, even though I haven't once used a Supercharger :eek:
     

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