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CCS Charging options for Model 3

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"We will be adding the European plug as well"

That is about superchargers though, not Tesla cars. And it sounds like they want to keep the Tesla fast charging plug (since he said "as well" and complains about the ugliness of the CCS European standard plug). So I think they do what needs to be done to comply with German laws, but also want to keep their own plug since it's nicer.

I do hope we get a CCS adapter for Model 3, since CCS fast chargers with up to 150kW might be abundant in Germany by 2020. Thanks to a government initiative giving away CCS chargers to most Autobahn rest stops for free, and the rest stops get to keep any income generated by them.
 
That is about superchargers though, not Tesla cars. And it sounds like they want to keep the Tesla fast charging plug (since he said "as well" and complains about the ugliness of the CCS European standard plug). So I think they do what needs to be done to comply with German laws, but also want to keep their own plug since it's nicer.

I do hope we get a CCS adapter for Model 3, since CCS fast chargers with up to 150kW might be abundant in Germany by 2020. Thanks to a government initiative giving away CCS chargers to most Autobahn rest stops for free, and the rest stops get to keep any income generated by them.

Correct, it's about the SuperChargers, not the car.

Let me clarify myself however. Now Tesla is in to the CCS 'game' they might take this more seriously. A port which accepts SuperCharging AND CCS is in Europe still physically doable. No need for adapters.
 
We have the most absurd problem in Australia with charge connectors. Tesla quite correctly released the model S with European type 2 connector due to our 3ph 230/400 grid. However quite unbelievably BMW has brought in the i3 with a type 1 CCS port!!! I really just can't believe BMW could so stupid/incompetent/short sighted.

Already 11 CCS type 1 sites have been rolled out in the state of WA. I'm hoping some common sense prevails and BMW changes their mind of offers existing customers a retrofit.

Interestingly Audi has also brought in the A3 erroneously with a type 1 non CCS connector. The mind boggles. Perhaps they just thought the very few charge stations in country were type 1 to support the Leaf, they would just run with it.
 
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I'll be happy to ignore the CCS 'standard' and would hope Tesla Motors does as well. Because CCS will take a while to catch up with even CHAdeMO in abundance, let alone Tesla HPWC Destination Charging and Superchargers. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to include the FrankenPlug monstrosity port on the Model ≡.
 
We have the most absurd problem in Australia with charge connectors. Tesla quite correctly released the model S with European type 2 connector due to our 3ph 230/400 grid. However quite unbelievably BMW has brought in the i3 with a type 1 CCS port!!! I really just can't believe BMW could so stupid/incompetent/short sighted.

Already 11 CCS type 1 sites have been rolled out in the state of WA. I'm hoping some common sense prevails and BMW changes their mind of offers existing customers a retrofit.

Interestingly Audi has also brought in the A3 erroneously with a type 1 non CCS connector. The mind boggles. Perhaps they just thought the very few charge stations in country were type 1 to support the Leaf, they would just run with it.

That's odd. Never knew that.

I'll be happy to ignore the CCS 'standard' and would hope Tesla Motors does as well. Because CCS will take a while to catch up with even CHAdeMO in abundance, let alone Tesla HPWC Destination Charging and Superchargers. There is absolutely no reason whatsoever to include the FrankenPlug monstrosity port on the Model ≡.

Might be true for the US, but in Europe we see more and more CCS chargers popping up. Legislation also requires CCS in the future.
 
widodh: The problem is that in the US, it is pretty much guaranteed that the 'standard' will tend toward the lowest common denominator. I expect that in Europe, there will be a solid effort to make sure that CCS connectors will be near the top of the specification.
 
tesla-model-3-spy-photos-7.jpg


Looking at the big black area near the taillight it seems that CCS might fit in there.

I am really curious to see if at least in Europe Model 3 will natively support CCS with ~250A.
 
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Unfortunately this looks too small to fit a CCS outlet, especially considering the bottom is the wide part of the CCS plug. It might fit if the outlet on the car was turned by 45 degrees.

I like the idea of charging ports on both sides. I'm currently driving an i3 which has the charge port on the passenger side. For street-side charging like is common in the Netherlands this seems much better than exposing the charging cable to the road. But it can be a little annoying to walk around the car when plugging in at home, so two charge ports seems like a great idea.
 
Looking into this a bit further I found this: Position Papers & Regulation: Charging Interface Initiative e. V. (CharIN e. V.)

CharInEV is the organization behind CCS in Europe.

I quote from their website:

ACEA confirmed that from 2017 onwards, at the latest, ALL new electric vehicle types will implement the Combined Charging System by using Type 2 and Combo 2 based AC/DC charging interfaces.

ACEA = European Automobile Manufacturers Association

Tesla is not a member of ACEA, but in addition I found this for the chargers:

From November 18, 2017 onwards, the member states of the European Union must equip their fast charging stations with CCS. They may continue to operate their existing charging infrastructure, but must at least provide CCS (the connector Combo 2 for DC and the connector Type 2 for AC charging) in their expanded or new infrastructure.

I haven't been able to find where CCS is mandatory for new EVs, but it will be at least for all chargers installed later this year.

Really hope Tesla follows this route and we get CCS on Model 3.
 
This problem / solution is very different in Europe vs. U.S.

In Europe Tesla already uses physically the "top part" of CCS plug as they use DC-Mid. Meaning, all it would take, physically, is adding the bottom pins/connector to make European Teslas compatible with both the AC Type 2 and Tesla Euro-Supercharging and CCS. (And of course any upgraded electrics and electronics needed.) None of the Superchargers would have to change, Type 2 stations could still be used, and CCS could be used as well.

This image shows how "simple" it would be - the connector could just be expanded and moved to the higher portion of the taillight assembly:

Tesla in Europe:

125.jpg


CCS in Europe (Type 2):

D301222.jpg


As @widodh pointed out, Model 3 charge port seems larger and might be able to accommodate a CCS connector. In the U.S. the solution could be to have a CCS connector on the other side of the car, in Europe all it would take is to extend the existing Tesla connector... Model S/X would need re-designs of the corner lights, but still probably without any metal changes needed.

tesla-model-3-spy-photos-1-750x422.jpg
 
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AnxietyRanger, great visuals, but isn't both the US and European possible scinarios exactly what I said could be possible in post #32?

It is. :)

Here is your post again - agree with it 100%:

Sure is! I might even guess that the US version could have a CCS Type 1 combo socket on one side and a Tesla socket on the other. And in Europe, CCS Type 2 combo on both sides for ease of charging.
 
Looking into this a bit further I found this: Position Papers & Regulation: Charging Interface Initiative e. V. (CharIN e. V.)

CharInEV is the organization behind CCS in Europe.

I quote from their website:



ACEA = European Automobile Manufacturers Association

Tesla is not a member of ACEA, but in addition I found this for the chargers:



I haven't been able to find where CCS is mandatory for new EVs, but it will be at least for all chargers installed later this year.

Really hope Tesla follows this route and we get CCS on Model 3.
Careful reading of CharIN documents (easy to get directly from them) show that most players in EV's globally are CharIN members including Tesla. The CHAdeMO older approach looks to be very gradually losing D.C. fast to CCS. Tesla will support CCS, and JB has long ago stated that Tesla cars are already software compatible with CCS.

To be clear, most NA CCS is a very early type that has little of the information exchange crucial to an industry-wide access system and is limited to pretty slow charging. However, a quick look at CharIN shows how they are future-proofing not only charging speed but, crucially, preserving a very wide option of payment choices (read the CharIN position paper on payments) so everything from "free for life" to casual payment by credit or debit can be allowed with plenty of options for almost any payment option.

Without question the CCS Fast connection is unattractive and bulky, but has very robust high-power-capacity conmectors. Native NA Tesla connectors will need modification anyway to allow for very much more than the present Supercharger loads due to overheating.

Not to worry. One way or another Tesla will have connectors and software logic figured out well before we fast ultra-fast charging.

FWIW, Tesla also participates in CHAdeMO, and their site is also informative.
Despite the early lead in some areas driven by Nissan neither CHAdeMO nor NA Supercharging connectors will dominate globally.
Why? Neither has the payment-system-agnostic system that CharIN has provided. Paying for charging is nearly as important as the electrical connections. Winner: CharIN CCS
Why? Only CharIN has membership that includes major vehicle makers, battery makers, connector suppliers, public utilities, charging networks and system designers. Neither Supercharging nor CHAdeMO really has those. Winnner: CharIN CCS
Installed base is another story. Here the whole world looks like Australia today, where one needs a plethora of inconsistent connectors, adapters and arcane converters/inverters to get around. In this respect it is much like the global traveler of the 1980's and before carrying a 100/240V inverter, an assortment of adapters. ( I still have my 1980 set, with nine adapters plus a bulky heavy inverter). All this inconsistency will not go away, but, high power DC Fast will end out pretty consistent because of the nature of risk in temporary connections at high power. That will happen because the risk of failure at very high power is really serious. The only widespread example today is that of aircraft auxiliary power, which is quite similar to the automotive DC Fast problem. Globally there really is a single standard for aircraft Ground Power Unit (GPU) connections. So there will be for BEV's, and it will be bulky to allow very high capacity.
 
I really don't wish, long-term, we end up in Apple vs. the world situation with EV charging connectors. I'm actually happy that in Europe Tesla uses a fairly standard connector already.

CCS is bulky and ugly, but other than that, it seems fairly robust and also seems to have a future together with Type 1/2. I see CHAdeMO as well as manufacturer proprietary connections as temporary at least in Europe.
 
I really don't wish, long-term, we end up in Apple vs. the world situation with EV charging connectors. I'm actually happy that in Europe Tesla uses a fairly standard connector already.

CCS is bulky and ugly, but other than that, it seems fairly robust and also seems to have a future together with Type 1/2. I see CHAdeMO as well as manufacturer proprietary connections as temporary at least in Europe.
Just between us, if there is high power I don't mind bulky. If there is high power the load caring connection should be robust. Anyway, in use the CCS plug is not very inconvenient. I agree that the other standards will gradually yield, although I suspect some of the old ones, almost all L2 and L1, will stick around for decades, just as L2 and L1 do not have even national standards today. Witness Australia, the USA and most larger countries. If there are not national electricity standards for domestic housing for frequency, much less connectors, why should we expect BEV standards to differ?