CCS for Model 3 in North America

[Legen---dary]

It's been said before, and will be said again.

We really, really need the CCS adapter (chademo not so much in N.A.) for the Model 3, at least.

Is there a technical reason, or other, that Tesla is holding back on this?

My area has many free CCS chargers, and since I live in a skycave, I'm mostly limited to L3 charging, so must drive out of the way to a supercharger.

Of course I knew this going in, and it's ok -- supercharging is my Zen time -- but a CCS adapter, soon, would be so very much appreciated.

 

[golfpilot]

In the Bay Area, the free chadmeo/ccs Charger seems to always be occupied by an Uber driver in a Bolt. My buddy lives in a skycave too and the parking lot is littered with Teslas. I think most of them charge at work.

 

[fishtank]

Upgrading to SuC to Ccs is a huge task. In Europe only a few Suc chargers are upgraded with an extra Ccs cable on each site. Some sites as few as four chargers label led "Model 3 priority" however the old cable is still there as well so M3 owners do see their Suc charging options occupied by M/X owners. I think Tesla needs to do something to expand in Europe or enforce "priority" in software

 

[Legen---dary]

Upgrading to SuC to Ccs is a huge task. In Europe only a few Suc chargers are upgraded with an extra Ccs cable on each site. Some sites as few as four chargers label led "Model 3 priority" however the old cable is still there as well so M3 owners do see their Suc charging options occupied by M/X owners. I think Tesla needs to do something to expand in Europe or enforce "priority" in software

I agree. It sounds like people in Europe are having a tough time keeping the CCS-equipped superchargers free from cars that do not use them. Maybe a simple solution is to remove the old Tesla cables from those superchargers, although some sort of software reminder would be a little more subtle. Maybe it could detect if there are free stalls without CCS in the same lot, and recommend moving.

Unfortunately/fortunately, my Model 3 only has the old style supercharger interface. I can use an adapter (another thing not needed with CCS) to charge at level-2, but any of the CCS/chademo chargers here are completely useless for the 3.

A simple adapter, as has been shown in 'leaks' all over the place, would solve the problem immediately. Of course Tesla would need to mod the software. I'm sure it's in the pipeline, but the wait is very frustrating due to the high cost of supercharging.

 

[Knightshade]

The CCS adapter that we've seen pics of is a european adapter, it would not work in the US even if it was available.

 

[APotatoGod]

This "skycave" you speak of intrigues me. Precisely what wizardry is needed to access a skycave?

 

[Legen---dary]

This "skycave" you speak of intrigues me. Precisely what wizardry is needed to access a skycave?

An electrickery vehicle of course! One with autopilot and full-self-driving. The summon mode and navigate to destination work perfectly.

We call it an 'elevator.'

It is wizardry. Dimensionless point-charges existing in an infinite field of possible locations are coaxed into doing work by their siblings, far away.

These dimensionless dots in space-time are channeled through the elevator, raising me to my cave in the sky.

 

[MLKRMR]

Upgrading to SuC to Ccs is a huge task. In Europe only a few Suc chargers are upgraded with an extra Ccs cable on each site. Some sites as few as four chargers label led "Model 3 priority" however the old cable is still there as well so M3 owners do see their Suc charging options occupied by M/X owners. I think Tesla needs to do something to expand in Europe or enforce "priority" in software

First wave saw only a few SuC stalls upgraded to CCS, but now all stalls are being converted in the second wave. My "home SuC" now has all 24 stalls usable for Model 3!

In Europe the Model 3 (and later Y) are the most flexible and usable; not only do we have the SuC, but also FastNed, Ionity and Allego for example, with 50-350 kW for fast DC charging, as well as Type 2 AC slow charging at 11 kW. No current EV has so many options!

 

[Zoltrix77]

The CCS adapter that we've seen pics of is a european adapter, it would not work in the US even if it was available.

No one said it will be same adapter. But a US adapter would be the same on a technical level, it would just be CCS1 in and Tesla out. The fact is that the adapter would be a very useful addition to the Model 3/Y in the US.

 

[Zoltrix77]

First wave saw only a few SuC stalls upgraded to CCS, but now all stalls are being converted in the second wave. My "home SuC" now has all 24 stalls usable for Model 3!

In Europe the Model 3 (and later Y) are the most flexible and usable; not only do we have the SuC, but also FastNed, Ionity and Allego for example, with 50-350 kW for fast DC charging, as well as Type 2 AC slow charging at 11 kW. No current EV has so many options!

Exactly, the only reason they did a few at each site is to make sure every supercharger location would have a CSS plug quickly in time for the Model 3 launch, it only took a few weeks to do this. The rest of the site will probably be converted in only a few more weeks.

I still don't understand why Tesla didn't change to a full CCS2 socket on the model S and X a couple of years ago. They already engineered a door for a bigger charge port for the S and X models delivered to China. Now all European s/X customers are subjected to an adapter when using a CCS2 chargers.

Tesla should have been brave enough to deliver the Model 3 with CCS in the US too.... Europe now effectively has a unified standard for all EVs, and the US does not.

 

[Knightshade]

No one said it will be same adapter. But a US adapter would be the same on a technical level, it would just be CCS1 in and Tesla out. The fact is that the adapter would be a very useful addition to the Model 3/Y in the US.

The US Chademo adapter already exists for the S/X. It would require virtually nothing to enable for the 3 compared to building a CCS adapter from scratch. And folks (especially Canadians) have been clamoring for one as super useful since the 3 came out.

But Model 3 owners have been waiting nearly 2 years now for that to happen with nothing but promises of "it's coming" to show for it.

 

[Legen---dary]

The US Chademo adapter already exists for the S/X. It would require virtually nothing to enable for the 3 compared to building a CCS adapter from scratch. And folks (especially Canadians) have been clamoring for one as super useful since the 3 came out.

But Model 3 owners have been waiting nearly 2 years now for that to happen with nothing but promises of "it's coming" to show for it.

Exactly. It's amazingly annoying that they've not come out with a CCS adapter yet. The Chademo for the S/X is clunky, huge, and expensive, and requires a lot of internal smarts. I suspect the CCS adapter for the 3 will be more of a pass-through, with the smarts being in the car/charger.

We really need this as soon as possible; I'll buy one the second it appears.

Kind of off topic, but I think (and hope) the CCS standard is taken up by Tesla as they've done in Europe. The Supercharger is great, and was needed back in the day before there were any good standards, but CCS seems to be the way things are heading. Hopefully the Model Y has CCS, and Tesla slowly converts all of the Superchargers over, providing an adapter for older cars.

I can't imagine how nice it must feel to pull up to a free J1772 and just plug it in! Another bonus.

 

[Eno Deb]

Here's another reason why I think we need CCS support: to avoid becoming completely dependent on a single company that can change prices at will. Case in point, in Germany Tesla just raised the rates to 0.42 EUR/kWh, which is roughly twice the previous minute-based pricing, and more expensive than driving on Diesel (see this video if you understand German). In contrast, the big roaming providers typically charge about 0.25-0.30 EUR per kWh. Now Model 3 drivers in Europe are in a good position, because they can simply switch to another network. Model S/X drivers don't have that option as long as there is no CCS adapter ...

Regarding Chademo, not only is the adapter expensive, unwieldy and limited to 50kW, it is also pretty clear that Chademo is dying in the US. Nissan is the only car maker left that still sells cars with Chademo here, and that will not be enough to keep it economically viable in the next few years as more and more CCS cars go on sale. So yes, I would much prefer CCS. Not sure if the situation is different in Canada though (is there some entity like Electrify America that is pumping hundreds of millions primarily into CCS infrastructure?).

 

[MP3Mike]

Kind of off topic, but I think (and hope) the CCS standard is taken up by Tesla as they've done in Europe. The Supercharger is great, and was needed back in the day before there were any good standards, but CCS seems to be the way things are heading. Hopefully the Model Y has CCS, and Tesla slowly converts all of the Superchargers over, providing an adapter for older cars.

Not likely to happen as that would mean that they need to convert all of the destination chargers too. Either that or they would have to provide an adapter to the old cars to use the new spots and an adapter to the new cars to use the old spots... (i.e. everyone would need an adapter.)

So I don't see that ever happening.

 

[Legen---dary]

Not likely to happen as that would mean that they need to convert all of the destination chargers too. Either that or they would have to provide an adapter to the old cars to use the new spots and an adapter to the new cars to use the old spots... (i.e. everyone would need an adapter.)

So I don't see that ever happening.

I wonder... We're still at the beginning of EVs going mainstream, so even though it seems a monumental task right now, it'll be exponentially more difficult as time goes on.

Either way is fine, as long as Tesla cars in NA can use level 3 chargers and not only depend on the Superchargers for high-speed.

 

[Zoltrix77]

Not likely to happen as that would mean that they need to convert all of the destination chargers too. Either that or they would have to provide an adapter to the old cars to use the new spots and an adapter to the new cars to use the old spots... (i.e. everyone would need an adapter.)

So I don't see that ever happening.

I disagree, it always seems like hard work when standards change, but it always ends up happening. Tesla did a good job with their original design because there was no high current standard to follow for DCFC. Other manfucturers could have followed, but they didn't, so that debate is over now, the standard is CCS. Tesla is doing its customers a disservice by not giving them the option. People like to compare this with the Apple lightning connector, buts that's not really comparable, because the lightning cable is at least an adapter in itself.

Its a $50 adapter, just produce it and change the ports on cars going forward. Model 3 could even have a at-cost retrofit option for CCS.

 

[israndy]

Is it really impossible to make and sell a CCS adapter that would work on the NA Teslas w/o the support of Tesla itself?

-Randy

 

[MP3Mike]

Is it really impossible to make and sell a CCS adapter that would work on the NA Teslas w/o the support of Tesla itself?

Probably not impossible, but not easy and certainly not cheap. You would have to convert between Tesla's proprietary Supercharger protocol, which they can change at any time, and the CCS protocol, as well as having all the high power switching in an adapter.

I would say it wouldn't be practical for anyone other than Tesla. @wk057 would likely know better as I think he has already created an emulated Supercharger for his personal use to bypass the DC->AC->DC loses in charging his Teslas from his off-grid storage.

 

[Legen---dary]

Is it really impossible to make and sell a CCS adapter that would work on the NA Teslas w/o the support of Tesla itself?

-Randy

I believe so. Tesla needs to incorporate the appropriate software to talk to the charger. My guess is they've already done it, but for unknown reasons are holding back in North America.

As the Model 3 continues to proliferate, the customer base will undoubtedly demand a CCS>SC adapter, even at CCS1.

If only there was a way we could poke Tesla on this issue.

 

[AtlasTracer]

Not sure if the situation is different in Canada though (is there some entity like Electrify America that is pumping hundreds of millions primarily into CCS infrastructure?).

CCS is becoming a thing in Canada (and likely will be more available than Tesla SCs here over time): Home | Electrify Canada exists. In addition - BC Hydro has deployed a number of (mostly free) L3 Chargers across BC: CCS and Chademo. Petro Canada (owned by Suncor) is building a nation-wide CSS/Chademo network: EV Fast Charge car charging stations. Shell Corp bought Greenlots (and Shell stations are all across Canada) - I could see them deploying DC Fast charging at many of their stations to ensure Petro Canada/Suncor are not the only ones in the game.

I don't even have my Model 3 yet. But I was actually having second thoughts before ordering based on CCS infrastructure that exists (and will be coming). But I opted for the best EV for the money, and hope that either the superchargers continue to expand, or that perhaps there is a way for us to use CCS chargers down the road. I'm envious that EU gets to use CCS on their Model 3s (as well as the whole Spotify thing...)