Welcome to Tesla Motors Club
Discuss Tesla's Model S, Model 3, Model X, Model Y, Cybertruck, Roadster and More.
Register

CCS with bundle of wires won't go over 50kW even on 250kw SC [resolved with longer battery pre conditioning]

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,389
51,626
Oregon
That was my thinking, although he's gone through two bundles of wires and seemingly had expert help from the seller. I suppose the seller could have a bad batch. The other thought is that there's something different about his charge port that is making it incompatible with the bundle of wires.
Yep, it could be an older port type with a different temperature sensor setup. Someone might have to do testing and make a different bundle of wires, or people with those older ports might need to wait until early next year when Tesla starts offering the official retrofit.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ElectricIAC

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,899
19,239
San Diego
Yep, it could be an older port type with a different temperature sensor setup. Someone might have to do testing and make a different bundle of wires, or people with those older ports might need to wait until early next year when Tesla starts offering the official retrofit.
Should definitely take that CCS adapter and try it on another car if @bradtem has not already done so.

It is a LEMR Model 3 though. Maybe Tesla has not updated the software to support faster charging than that in this situation?
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

MP3Mike

Well-Known Member
Feb 1, 2016
20,389
51,626
Oregon
Should definitely take that CCS adapter and try it on another car if @bradtem has not already done so.

It is a LEMR Model 3 though. Maybe Tesla has not updated the software to support faster charging than that in this situation?
He isn't even using the CCS adapter. Supercharging is limited as well now that he installed the new charge port ECU and bundle of wires. And it sounds like he has already tried a different bundle of wires. So that leaves the charge port and charge port ECU as the likely culprits.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Today I will take a trip and precondition for 30 minutes and be at 30% SoC and see what that does. Hopefully it fixes it and I just underestimated how much current it will allow with a lukewarm battery. Will let you know. As I said, while I have supercharged lots and taken many road trips, I think even before preconditioning was a thing, I have almost never supercharged here it town after just a short drive. So that may be colouring my experience.
 
  • Informative
Reactions: ElectricIAC

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,899
19,239
San Diego
He isn't even using the CCS adapter. Supercharging is limited as well now that he installed the new charge port ECU and bundle of wires. And it sounds like he has already tried a different bundle of wires. So that leaves the charge port and charge port ECU as the likely culprits.
Ah, bad thread title. Missed that detail in the text, since for some reason CCS was mentioned (clearly irrelevant). Though title also says SC! I guess I just decided that was (incorrect) shorthand for Level 3. “Model 3 LEMR with BOW and new charge port ECU hard limited to 50kW charging everywhere (???)”

Has the LEMR been confirmed to work with this modification?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Ah, bad thread title. Missed that detail in the text, since for some reason CCS was mentioned (clearly irrelevant). Though title also says SC! I guess I just decided that was (incorrect) shorthand for Level 3. “Model 3 LEMR with BOW and new charge port ECU hard limited to 50kW charging everywhere (???)”

Has the LEMR been confirmed to work with this modification?
Not at all irrelevant. The change of charge controller was solely to enable CCS, and it has been limited to 50kW on an EA 150kW station as well as in 2 250kW supercharger attempts.

I did not use the phrase "hard limit" because I have seen it peak to around 52kW, which maybe is a good sign, but it is odd that the number is in this range. On my CHAdeMO adapter, I never got 50kW and at most got 47kW. (That, of course, is probably because the station is putting out 50, but the car is only getting 47. Usually it got 43 on CHAdeMO, though.) As noted, my expectation would be higher for 250kW superchargers and 40% SoC, even with only 10 minutes of warm-up, but still more to be learned.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,899
19,239
San Diego
because I have seen it peak to around 52kW, which maybe is a good sign,

The 250kW also overshoots to 253-255kW (or so) on occasion so if it quickly came down to the 50kW I would still call that a hard limit.

But anyway only you know what you saw. I think seeing steady 50kW on multiple attempts (which you seemed to be describing) indicates it is not due to pre-conditioning. However, good to rule out and I don’t know what you saw.

Could take a video!

Not at all irrelevant. The change of charge controller was solely to enable CCS
I understand that but it just doesn’t describe the problem that well, since CCS charging being the issue has been (apparently) ruled out. But anyway, my fault for not reading much more carefully.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
Good news but my bad. After 40 minutes of precondition it charged at 160kW. Yay. But sorry for troubling the crowd. It was just a strange coincidence that 3 different charges in a row stuck at 50kW, even though one had 2 minutes precondition, another had 12 minutes, another 10 and on 150kW CCS. Just a weird pattern that fooled me it seemed. Later I will try CCS again, but it may be a while before I am at low SoC and driving 40 miles to a CCS.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,899
19,239
San Diego
Good news but my bad. After 40 minutes of precondition it charged at 160kW. Yay. But sorry for troubling the crowd. It was just a strange coincidence that 3 different charges in a row stuck at 50kW, even though one had 2 minutes precondition, another had 12 minutes, another 10 and on 150kW CCS. Just a weird pattern that fooled me it seemed. Later I will try CCS again, but it may be a while before I am at low SoC and driving 40 miles to a CCS.
Glad to hear it was simple pre-conditioning!

I was wrong!

Shows how difficult it is to debug a problem without seeing exactly what actually happened (it seems pretty unlikely that it was actually pinned at 50kW in prior sessions).

YouTube videos FTW!

Of course you didn’t *exactly* say it was pinned at 50kW…but that detail was critically important here. I think it is pretty unlikely (unless the supercharger used for this specific session was broken and hard limited, quite possible for a V2), that the below occurred exactly as described:


Yes, this is what concerned me. I charged for 10 minutes and saw no improvement. I did less on the others

In general people underestimate how much heating is required to precondition. But even with no preconditioning the charge rate will change over time, which makes it possible to distinguish from a car limit or (more commonly) a broken Supercharger. The two situations behave quite differently.
 
Last edited:

jjrandorin

Moderator, Model 3, Tesla Energy Forums
Moderator
Nov 28, 2018
17,461
23,382
Riverside Co. CA
Good news but my bad. After 40 minutes of precondition it charged at 160kW. Yay. But sorry for troubling the crowd. It was just a strange coincidence that 3 different charges in a row stuck at 50kW, even though one had 2 minutes precondition, another had 12 minutes, another 10 and on 150kW CCS. Just a weird pattern that fooled me it seemed. Later I will try CCS again, but it may be a while before I am at low SoC and driving 40 miles to a CCS.

I found the discussion interesting, much more so than a typical "why am I not getting my rated range" discussion that pops up several times a day.
 

bradtem

Robocar consultant
Dec 18, 2018
932
1,063
Sunnyvale, CA
I found the discussion interesting, much more so than a typical "why am I not getting my rated range" discussion that pops up several times a day.
One interesting question which has now arisen for me is what the people who don't charge at home do. They have to rely on local superchargers, and it seems unless they can time it to the end of a long drive they won't get good speed, which also makes chargers more full.

One trick, I suspect, is you can nav to the charger in your driveway and not drive and start the heat but you may not be able to get out.
 

ElectricIAC

Good-Natured Rascal
Dec 31, 2019
6,337
6,634
Tesla Friendly Place
One interesting question which has now arisen for me is what the people who don't charge at home do. They have to rely on local superchargers, and it seems unless they can time it to the end of a long drive they won't get good speed, which also makes chargers more full.

One trick, I suspect, is you can nav to the charger in your driveway and not drive and start the heat but you may not be able to get out.
As a regular free unlimited supercharging user and abuser (Allegedly), I can answer that one.

Just drive it like you stole it to the supercharger.
 

AlanSubie4Life

Efficiency Obsessed Member
Oct 22, 2018
14,899
19,239
San Diego
One interesting question which has now arisen for me is what the people who don't charge at home do. They have to rely on local superchargers, and it seems unless they can time it to the end of a long drive they won't get good speed, which also makes chargers more full.

One trick, I suspect, is you can nav to the charger in your driveway and not drive and start the heat but you may not be able to get out.
Anybody locally supercharging doesn’t care how long they sit in their car. May as well do it at the supercharger. More efficient anyway. Perhaps questionable for the battery.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ElectricIAC

STS-134

Active Member
Aug 8, 2021
1,786
3,109
SF Bay Area
Not at all irrelevant. The change of charge controller was solely to enable CCS, and it has been limited to 50kW on an EA 150kW station as well as in 2 250kW supercharger attempts.

I did not use the phrase "hard limit" because I have seen it peak to around 52kW, which maybe is a good sign, but it is odd that the number is in this range. On my CHAdeMO adapter, I never got 50kW and at most got 47kW. (That, of course, is probably because the station is putting out 50, but the car is only getting 47. Usually it got 43 on CHAdeMO, though.) As noted, my expectation would be higher for 250kW superchargers and 40% SoC, even with only 10 minutes of warm-up, but still more to be learned.
I've gotten to > 150 kW with no preconditioning at all. I doubt the preconditioning time matters, just the temperature of the battery. Of course if it starts out at -10°C then it's going to take good while to precondition.
 

About Us

Formed in 2006, Tesla Motors Club (TMC) was the first independent online Tesla community. Today it remains the largest and most dynamic community of Tesla enthusiasts. Learn more.

Do you value your experience at TMC? Consider becoming a Supporting Member of Tesla Motors Club. As a thank you for your contribution, you'll get nearly no ads in the Community and Groups sections. Additional perks are available depending on the level of contribution. Please visit the Account Upgrades page for more details.


SUPPORT TMC
Top