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CHAdeMO adapter wait frustration

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by John Sims, May 2, 2013.

  1. John Sims

    John Sims New Member

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    #1 John Sims, May 2, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 5, 2013
    My wife and I got our Model S about 6 weeks ago. It's a beautiful car. However, while we live in Seattle, we frequently travel to several destinations in eastern Washington state, where the charging infrastructure is not nearly as developed as it is west of the Cascades (or Sierras). On a recent trip with our gas-powered car, we made a point of checking out all the charging locations on several highways we travel frequently. To our pleasant surprise, there were many more than we expected. Unfortunately, the standard configuration at each these sites was one or more J1772 chargers, plus one fast DC charger with a CHAdeMO connector. Since Tesla does not offer a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S, we will only be able to use the much slower J1772 chargers.

    I contacted Tesla to ask when a CHAdeMO adapter would be available. I was told that whether or not one would be developed depended on how well the Model S penetrated the Japanese market, where CHAdeMO chargers apparently are standard. This seemingly reflects ignorance on Tesla's part, that there is already an extensive CHAdeMO network in the US (at least in Washington State), presumably because most electric cars including the Nissan Leaf can use that type of connection. The person on the phone also gave the standard pitch about Tesla planning to build a nationwide network of superchargers, but this ignores the fact that they haven't done so yet and have even defaulted on their previously promised time for installing superchargers on I-5 as far as the Canadian border. In addition, superchargers will likely be located only on Interstate Highways and perhaps other primary roads, and at least in the western US, recreational travel can take one a great distance from Interstates.

    I don't understand the reluctance of Tesla to provide such an adapter. In the first place, access to a much larger network of fast DC charging stations than Tesla does (or probably will) provide should be a strong selling point for the Model S, since it will eliminate much of potential buyers' concern over range. Second, if Tesla owners can travel further from large urban areas, because it's easier to charge, then people living outside urban areas will be much more likely to encounter Tesla cars in person and see for themselves how superior they are - again, boosting sales for Tesla.

    If you are also frustrated about the lack of a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S, please add a comment to this thread - I'm told Tesla pays attention to these blogs and that public opinion can make a difference to their priorities.

    ____________________
    Mod note: Adding link to adapter to first post in this thread:
    Shop Tesla Gear CHAdeMO Adapter
     
  2. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

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    Mitsubishi Canada located just of Hwy 401 near Toronto Pearson Airport (YYZ) has a free CHAdeMO charge station available.

    A44CF49A-8430-43CA-A763-78D962D490B1.JPG
    B1762B71-B4F4-4C83-900F-8AFDC641A478.JPG
     
  3. jomo25

    jomo25 P4398

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    I agree with most, if not all, of the OPs points. This has been lamented and discussed in several other Chademo threads here in the forum. Understand that WA's Chademo infrastructure isnt representative of the rest of the country, but it is growing. here in PHx we actually have a number of stations around town too. I can't understand why Tesla wouldn't want to offer an adapter. To me the benefits as stated by the OP far outweigh the possible cons of supporting a 'competing' standard.
     
  4. iridium

    iridium Member

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    +1

    I've also sent mail to Tesla customer service with the ask..
     
  5. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Since the Pennsylvania Turnpike Authority has announced Level-3 DC charging stations at seventeen of its turnpike rest areas this summer, I absolutely hope Tesla will announce a CHAdeMO adapter for the Model S. These stations would allow me to drive from my house in Pittsburgh to Philly or NYC...something the Supercharger network might still not do after two years, according to where the dots lie on the proposed map.

    If they want to sell cars, they need a CHAdeMO adapter. Certainly I would prefer Superchargers, which are free, but why not have the capability to do both? PA Turnpike plans to charge money for this, but have not named the price/rate.

    Please Tesla, either give us a CHAdeMO adapter, or roll out 200 Supercharger stations in the next few months. But since you are already making the CHAdeMO adapter for Japan, I really hope the availability of this adapter in the US (for purchase) will be part of the "Part 4" Supercharger announcement.
     
  6. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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  7. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    I respectfully disagree. it's time to ratchet it up a bit, a more pointed title as this one more accurately describes the steadily increasing tension around this subject. Tesla needs to address this, it's really getting nutty for so many owners in key markets on the west coast to be sitting for hours waiting for a charge parked right next to a DC fast charger they have no adapter for. I was told last year this was just weeks/months away, I bought the car with the virtual guarantee from sales people that it was on it's way. It is clear that at least in the short run, CHAdeMO is the standard that is getting adopted in large enough numbers that it needs to be adapted to... There are already more CHAdeMO DC fast chargers in WA/OR/CA than Tesla plans to put in the entire country.

    better yet, I would be ecstatic if that thing "under our nose" was a CHAdeMO plug somewhere on the car already, I can dream...

     
  8. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    Would love an adapter, but would love superchargers more...so there's that.
     
  9. Puyallup Bill

    Puyallup Bill Member

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    #9 Puyallup Bill, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
    Of course, being in WA, I too would love to see a CHAdeMO adapter, but be prepared - it's gonna cost you. The Roadster to Model S adapter appears to be not much more than two connectors and a piece of cable, and it goes for $650*. I suspect the CHAdeMO adapter will require some sort of interface, and the hardware ain't cheap. For example, the CHAdeMO socket kit for the Zero electric motorcycle goes for $1,800.

    As an aside, although the CHAdeMO system is spreading, to the best of my knowledge, only two production cars available in the US can use it - the Nissan LEAF and Mitsubishi iMEV. Not BMW, Ford, GM, or Toyota RAV4 (uses Tesla supplied battery and drive system).

    I am seriously considering the Roadster to S adapter now that it is on the store web site.

    Edit -*And, when you add sales tax and Tesla's ridiculously high shipping, it is well over $700.

    -
     
  10. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    If the Leaf isn't a big hit, I'm not sure you'll see more widespread placement of the charge stations but hope they make it available.
     
  11. swegman

    swegman Member

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    As my son will be attending Penn State starting this fall, I would like to have such an adapter so I could take the Tesla to visit, instead of taking an ICE car.
     
  12. TurboFroggy

    TurboFroggy Member

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    How do you figure that? Nissan
    had record high sales of Leafs in the month of March and the second highest sales month ever last month. There are several dealers on the west coast in San Francisco, Portland and Seattle who sold more Leafs than any other Nissan model. This includes my local dealer here who sold almost 2:1 Leafs to the next most popular Nissan model. http://green.autoblog.com/2013/04/02/nissan-leaf-best-sales-month-2236-chevy-volt-1478/ http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/01/nissan-leaf-chevy-volt-april-2013-sales/ http://insideevs.com/nissan-dealers-in-san-francisco-portland-and-seattle-selling-leafs-at-unbelievable-rate-request-additional-supply/
     
  13. scottf200

    scottf200 Active Member

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    #13 scottf200, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    In very limited locations.
    Nissan sold 21,991 Altimas in April. Correct - 20K more of them than LEAFs.
    And 11,904 Rogues. So like 10K more of them than LEAFs.
    Above from: http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/05/usa-30-best-selling-vehicles-april-2013.html
    And 7,155 Versas.
     
  14. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    with Jay Inslee in office, the west coast green highway is surely going to get more funding. Once an adapter is available, the economical thing to do is what happened at Bergerville, a bunch of us pitched in for an roadster to S adapter and a lock box with combo, making it so not everyone has to own one. the same thing could happen at prime CHAdeMO DCQC's. Ideally Tesla would, if they are smart, provide states with CHAdeMO, some adapters... much cheaper way to expand access than building even more superchargers. Who knows the WCGH folks at the DOT might just spring for some adapters with state funding or partner with Tesla, certainly they want to expand access, these are what, like $1/4 million a pop, whats another $1,500? Inslee is super hard core pro EV, i'm guessing all sorts of creative things are possible, but we need the adapter first!

     
  15. TurboFroggy

    TurboFroggy Member

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    70,000+ Leafs/Zoe world wide, we are just passing 10,000 VINs for the Model S. I am trying to figure out how someone could state the Leaf hasn't been popular. Hasn't been popular compared to the F150/Camry sheeple but not compared to other plug-ins. In April only 163 more Model S was sold than Leafs. http://green.autoblog.com/2013/03/08/carlos-ghosn-for-renault-and-nissan-70-000-evs-sold-is-just-th/

    April 2013 Plug-in Electric Car Sales Numbers


    Plug-in Electrics sold in the U.S. (April 2013):
    7,138
    Plug-in Electric Take-Rate: 0.56%


    U.S. Plug-in Electric sales for April 2013




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    Mfgr Model 4-13 Sales vs. 3-13 vs. 4-12 CY 2013 CY 13 vs 12 CY 12 US Plug-In Share
    Tesla Model S* 2,100 7.7% N/A 6,850 N/A - 29.42%
    Nissan Leaf 1,937 -13.4% 423.5% 5,476 160.4% 2,103 27.14%
    Chevrolet Volt 1,306 -11.6% -10.7% 5,550 3.2% 5,377 18.30%
    Toyota Prius Plug In 599 -23.8% -63.8% 2,952 15.0% 2,566 8.39%
    Ford C-Max
    Energi
    411 -16.8% N/A 1,577 N/A - 5.76%
    Ford Fusion Energi 364 23.4% N/A 778 N/A - 5.10%
    Ford Focus EV 147 -18.3% N/A 566 28200.0% 2 2.06%
    Mitsubishi i 127 309.7% 60.8% 752 249.8% 215 1.78%
    Toyota RAV4
    EV
    70 -47.4% N/A 280 N/A - 0.98%
    Honda Accord Plug In 55 111.5% N/A 100 N/A - 0.77%
    Honda Fit EV 22 -4.3% N/A 68 N/A - 0.31%
    BMW ActiveE - N/A -100.0% - -100.0% 583 0.00%
    Smart forTwo EV - N/A N/A 2 0.0% 2 0.00%
    Total Plug-In 7,138 -6.5% 98.5% 24,951 130.0% 10,848 OK
    Total Auto Sales 1,280,776 -11.5% -8.5% 4,956,253 6.9% 4,637,367
    Overall Plug-In Take Rate 0.56% 0.50% 0.23%
     
  16. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #16 stopcrazypp, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 2, 2013
    Tesla may be waiting to see what moves SAE DC makes in the US (as the first public chargers with that standard will roll out this fall). Tesla's Model S connector is extremely similar to the SAE DC standard (makes sense since the Model S connector is so similar to the J1772 AC connector). I anticipate a SAE DC adapter will be around the same as the J1772 adapter (size/usage/price).

    The EU already threw down the gauntlet and said they will only support IEC standards (which CHAdeMO isn't, but the Combo plug is), which means Tesla effectively no longer has to worry about making adapters for Europe (three phase support is a much bigger issue).

    Washington/Oregon as can be seen in this thread, decided to go ahead with a huge investment in CHAdeMO, although page 15 of a recent presentation by the Washington DOT talking about DC chargers in both states says there will be bonus points for chargers that support both CHAdeMO and SAE for forwards compatibility:
    http://www.georgetownclimate.org/sites/default/files/EV%20Panel-Buell-final.pdf
    So I think some of the chargers along the west coast highway will be SAE capable.

    In the US, only California/CARB has concrete support for SAE DC. There have not been much movement in other states, but I have look at some DC charging guidelines for various states and they do seem to be holding back on heavy investment in DC infrastructure until SAE DC is ready.
     
  17. SwedishAdvocate

    SwedishAdvocate Active Member

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    #17 SwedishAdvocate, May 2, 2013
    Last edited: May 3, 2013
    Note: This post can be ignored.

    --- Updated: Erroneous content has been corrected.

    But if anyone is wondering; Here’s why:

    Based on this quote:

    …and due to my rather limited technical knowledge I originally wrote that: ”As I understand it, Elon has said there will be a CHAdeMO adapter for the EU...”

    ...and pointed to the following previous posts from another thread on the forum:

    But as jkirkebo points out in post #21 below:

    So... Sorry. My bad...
     
  18. dbullard

    dbullard Member

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    It's my understanding that CHAdeMO is not free - if you build an adapter, you have to pay a licensing fee to the Japanese consortium that controls the standard.

    Since it's all Japanese cars that use CHAdeMO (the consortium is made up of Nissan, Mitsubishi, Fuji Heavy Industries (the manufacturer of Subaru vehicles), and Toyota), they get to use it for free. All others have to pay for both the charger-side and the car-side.

    When Tesla does come up with an adapter, it'll be expensive.

    Personally, looking at the Tesla plug design compared to CHAdeMO, CHAdeMO looks like something designed by, well, a committee.
     
  19. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Open != royalty free (a fact that has been a big deal in the smart phone wars). J1772 is royalty free (you pay $68 for a copy of the spec and you can do whatever you want with it).

    CHAdeMO involves technology patented by TEPCO so there are licensing fees attached for non-founding members:
    http://www.greencarcongress.com/2010/01/akerwade-20100115.html

    And I don't think there's much movement in Open CHAdeMO (haven't been updated since last year). What's more significant is the move to get it adopted as a JIS standard (with the main goal for it to become an official IEC standard, esp. important after EU's IEC-only policy).
     

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