-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
-
We are looking for another podcast participant who can act as a lead co-host to join the TMC Podcast. If you are interested in participating please see this thread.
CHAdeMO Adapter
- Thread starter Blathering1
- Start date
islandbayy
Active Member
dasRad
Member
Better yet, instead of producing and selling 100s(?) of CHAdeMO Adapters, why doesn't Tesla negotiate with other DC Fast Chargers to install a Tesla plug (and electronics) at those chargers? That would save Tesla owners having to carry a clunky adapter and vastly increase the number of Supercharger equivalent stations, virtually overnight. If necessary, a per use charge could be implemented to recover the cost of these cables. It's not like the Tesla Superchargers are "free" to Tesla owners - we all pay for them upfront, something like $2000.00 if I recall correctly.
There are a few reasons that could be problematic...Space is usually very limited (and negotiated) for each site. Adding more charging stations may not be possible physically, and even if it was, the real estate portion of the deal would have to be re-done. In addition, from an electric perspective, each charging site is designed with a certain maximum energy demand and many of the components are sized to that number. To come along and add even enough for one SC (120 kW) would in many cases double or triple the demand that the site was designed for. A full complement of 4 SCs requires a huge electric service as compared to other charging sites. So for now, the adapter seems to make the most sense to me. I'm about #65 on the waiting list, and can't wait....
This should surprise no one who follows Tesla. Tesla seriously sucks at estimates like this, and they should really just stop setting bogus expectations.
I decided to check in on my reservation for one today, this is the response:
"Hello, Thank you for contacting Tesla. Unfortunately, there have been some delays in the CHAdeMO adapter development. We estimate that the adapter will be available in the May/June time frame.
We apologize for the delays. You will be contacted as soon as the adapter is available."
"Hello, Thank you for contacting Tesla. Unfortunately, there have been some delays in the CHAdeMO adapter development. We estimate that the adapter will be available in the May/June time frame.
We apologize for the delays. You will be contacted as soon as the adapter is available."
dasRad
Member
I wasn't thinking about adding additional charging stations to existing CHAdeMO sites, but rather just add the control electronics/Tesla cable so that people did not have to carry an adapter everywhere. The point is that there are many existing/planned CHAdeMO charging stations which are currently unusable by the Model S. Adding a Tesla cable to these stations would forgo the requirement to carry an adapter. I would rather "rent" a cable at the charger than carry an a clunky adapter in the vehicle.
Tesla's Superchargers are a selling point and a great marketing 'feature'. They love to point out their free nationwide charging network. While it's awesome it's pretty limited even when finished. The number of Chademo chargers already outnumbers the Superchargers and they are installed at a faster rate than Superchargers. Superchargers are almost always outside of cities so they only support long distance traveling. The vast majority of traffic happens inside of cities. I think Tesla just isn't very interested in supporting Chademo as it's not helping them as a company. $1000 for an adapter is also ridiculous. I agree with dasRad, one adapter at each charging station would make much more sense than every Tesla owner having to buy one that remains unused 99.9% of the time. But quite honestly the issue is not the adapter, but rather Tesla's decision to use a proprietary charge plug instead of going with what is the common standard.
honestly, the issue is that the industry is way behind Tesla. I own a Leaf and was against Tesla's proprietary charging system until I saw a few things... how un-user friendly the CHAdeMO plug is, so much so that they get broken frequently and secondly how much faster the super charging system is, all from one relatively elegant plug... getting a taste of 90-135 kWh charging vs 50 kWh and I'm now a solid fan and think that the industry should just adopt Tesla's system, its vastly superior.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Well, if you have 480V, 3-Phase electrical available, (many commercial sites do), then the starting price for a 44kW CHAdeMO from Nissan is $15,500 plus install. In reality, that is probably only twice as fast as an 80A HPWC charging an MS with dual chargers for many times the cost.
Nissan Quick Charger - CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging for Electric Vehicles
Nissan Quick Charger - CHAdeMO DC Fast Charging for Electric Vehicles
Which isn't surprising as many are at dealers so there is only the cost of installing the unit. And of course, that's the other problem. They are not always available and some are limited even more by individual dealer policy.
There is no doubt the Superchargers are better, but that doesn't mean there should only be a company controlled system. That's really not helping the transition to EVs.
My point is that Tesla could very well build their Superchargers and keep them exclusive, but there is no reason to not support the common and open standard so that users can use that. It's really not desirable to have one company control all charging systems and collect license fees from everyone else to use it. That's why open standards are created. CHAdeMo isn't at all a bad standard. The reason the Model S can charge faster isn't because the lack of the CHAdeMo specs, it's because it actively cools the batteries. No other car does it and no other car has anywhere near as big of a battery so they all can't charge as fast. The fact that we see slow DC charge rates on other EVs right now is not because CHAdeMo is inferior. It's simple math, you can charge a battery that is 3 times larger with 3 times the power. Add cooling and you win by a landslide. All of this has nothing to do with the CHAdeMo standard.
well, I can say that having quite a bit of experience with both, that CHAdeMO is huge, clunky and prone to breaking. It's not user friendly, so much so, I don't believe it is ready for prime time, not ready for the mass market of non-EV enthusiasts who are simply happy to have anything beside L2. it got so bad with the Leaf that I just stopped trying to go beyond the Leaf's range on a single charge, along with a whole lot of other people. We have many, many ChadeMO chargers in the Northwest and it's really astonishing how few of them work reliable. I hear of very few Tesla Super Charger issues. As for active temperature management, it's my understanding that the Leaf is about the only EV without it, which has cost them dearly with dramatic, premature, permanent loss of capacity. lets hope the combo "Frankenplug" is better than CHAdeMO! I still think that Tesla's system is about the only thing in town, that can actually be used by the masses with consistent results and I now completely understand why Tesla went with their own system, something else might come that is better, but for now, there is nothing else as good, but hay, CHAdeMO is all over the place so I'm happy to use it for now with an adapter on the S... wish they would hurry up already!
Re: CHAdeMO being huge, clunky and prone to breaking. Yes, the cable and connector are heavy and the early (still in use) Yazaki handles aren't intuitive, at least not w/o reading instructions and/or watching videos first. And, yes, I hear that someone CHAdeMO DC FCs end up being out of order due to broken handles.
Reading the directions on the side of the stations while waiting for a charge and watching How To Use a Yazaki CHAdeMO Connector - YouTube made things MUCH easier for me.
The only CHAdeMO DC FC I've used has a Yazaki handle very similar to the one in the video except that there's a spring loaded charging lock for the black handle that needs to be pulled back too. IIRC, to detach, you have to pull the black handle slightly, pull the charging lock back and push the black button.
Again, not intuitive, but now is a total piece of cake once you've seen instructions and/or watched video then done it once.
stopcrazypp
Well-Known Member
The CHAdeMO connector started life more for commercial use (TEPCO electricity company), not consumer use. It has gone through some design updates that should make it more consumer friendly (although a lot of the chargers still use the original design). The Combo connector was designed for consumer use from the start, and from seeing videos of it in use, it's really no difference than the standard J1772 L2 connector in use right now.
- - - Updated - - -
Actually it IS because of CHAdeMO specs. Current gen CHAdeMO connectors are only rated to 125A; on paper the form factor can go to 200A. The Model S even when it was still at 90kW pulls up to 250A, at 120kW pulls up to 340A and the connector still has room for more power. The other issue is the CHAdeMO connector is too huge to fit under the current flap, and the last one is that it doesn't support AC charging so Tesla would need to add another connector anyways. It's just a standard that is simply inferior to what Tesla is using.
With winter's end fast approaching, I thought I would take a closer look at the chademo adapter. (Since that means we are getting close to the adapter being available in like, say, 4 or 5 months)
http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/chademo-adapter
Imagine my surprise to learn that the cost is $1K to me since I have supercharging enabled. But if I was buying a new model with SC or adding SC after the purchase, the effective cost is $400. Just another piece of their "screw the early adopters" policy. I fail to find the logic behind this pricing.
edit: and it also looks like the P85 or P85+ customers have to pay $1K as well.
http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/chademo-adapter
Imagine my surprise to learn that the cost is $1K to me since I have supercharging enabled. But if I was buying a new model with SC or adding SC after the purchase, the effective cost is $400. Just another piece of their "screw the early adopters" policy. I fail to find the logic behind this pricing.
edit: and it also looks like the P85 or P85+ customers have to pay $1K as well.
Similar threads
- Question
