Nigel Tufnel
Member
I should remember the world doesn't revolve around California, I sleep too much, and should re-read M. Scott Peck's "The Road Less Traveled".
-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
CHAdeMO adapter
- Thread starter ronmerkord
- Start date
What you're missing is not everyone lives in California. Essentially everyone can choose a route that has a supercharging station along the way? Really? Have you ever traveled away from the west coast?
Nigel Tufnel
Member
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Heads Up on the EMW CHAdeMO erector set!
It appears that even the EMW "High Voltage" DC Power Supply will not go up to the Voltages needed for an 85/90 kWh Tesla. At Electric Motor Werks, Inc. - QuickCharge-25000 HV - a 25kW PFC charger for HIGHER voltage batteries, it states: "There is only one limitation – you can only charge battery packs with end-of-charge voltage above the peak of the rectified AC wave (~340V from the 240VAC supply)" You need over 400 Volts DC for an 85/90 kWh Tesla.
In addition, the fact that the max Voltage is 1.4 * RMS Voltage implies that they are using a simple diode bridge to some capacitors. That is a reasonable design for small electronic power supplies, but not for a 25 kW supply. A diode bridge design only draws current at the peak of the Voltage waveform which is 1.414 times the RMS Voltage. Those will be short pulses of current at 120 Hz generating a lot of harmonics in current and adding a fair amount of stress to the grid. There is a reason why Europe limits the current Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on larger EV chargers.
It appears that even the EMW "High Voltage" DC Power Supply will not go up to the Voltages needed for an 85/90 kWh Tesla. At Electric Motor Werks, Inc. - QuickCharge-25000 HV - a 25kW PFC charger for HIGHER voltage batteries, it states: "There is only one limitation – you can only charge battery packs with end-of-charge voltage above the peak of the rectified AC wave (~340V from the 240VAC supply)" You need over 400 Volts DC for an 85/90 kWh Tesla.
In addition, the fact that the max Voltage is 1.4 * RMS Voltage implies that they are using a simple diode bridge to some capacitors. That is a reasonable design for small electronic power supplies, but not for a 25 kW supply. A diode bridge design only draws current at the peak of the Voltage waveform which is 1.414 times the RMS Voltage. Those will be short pulses of current at 120 Hz generating a lot of harmonics in current and adding a fair amount of stress to the grid. There is a reason why Europe limits the current Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) on larger EV chargers.
Read it again.
You can only charge battery packs with end-of-charge voltage above the peak of the rectified AC wave. Because the 85/90 kWh Tesla is ~400V, it is indeed above the peak of the rectified wave. It's only an issue if your battery pack was a 300V battery pack that the higher voltage would be an issue.
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Read it again.
You can only charge battery packs with end-of-charge voltage above the peak of the rectified AC wave. Because the 85/90 kWh Tesla is ~400V, it is indeed above the peak of the rectified wave. It's only an issue if your battery pack was a 300V battery pack that the higher voltage would be an issue.
Thanks! Still, seems like a squirrelly restriction. 60's and 70's with full charge of 350 Volts are getting pretty close to this threshold.
I still worry that they may be generating a lot of current THD with a simple rectifier design.
I see it both ways... $35,000 for a 50-500 volt charger that will cover every type of CHAdeMO vehicle that you might encounter plus the required three-phase power feed, or $4,200 for a model that's limited to battery packs >= 350V rating and can do 240V single-phase at up to 25 kW. If you're a business, you might need to shoot for the $35k model.
As long as it conforms to the protocol specs insofar as the Tesla uses it, I don't see that big of a deal. But I can understand a business not wanting the liability for J. Random Carowner out there.
CHAdeMO picture
I just got in my CHAdeMO adapter, which I ordered from Tesla. Since it is pretty clear at this point that the Model X onboard charger will be limited to 48 amps (12 KW), this CHAdeMO adapter provides a much needed option when out on the road, and not near a supercharger. Since the CHAdeMO can DC fast charge at up to 50 KW, it is about 4X faster than the onboard charger.
A nice addition for road trips, even some places within California. Might even consider putting in a CHAdeMO at home.
Ron
SigX VIN #484
I just got in my CHAdeMO adapter, which I ordered from Tesla. Since it is pretty clear at this point that the Model X onboard charger will be limited to 48 amps (12 KW), this CHAdeMO adapter provides a much needed option when out on the road, and not near a supercharger. Since the CHAdeMO can DC fast charge at up to 50 KW, it is about 4X faster than the onboard charger.
A nice addition for road trips, even some places within California. Might even consider putting in a CHAdeMO at home.
Ron
SigX VIN #484
Attachments
Does it look like it is worth $450? I will be getting one, especially since the Model X is being stuck with a 48Amp onboard charger, so hopefully there will be CHAdeMO chargers where there may not be SuperChargers.
I'd say that the $450 price tag is a bit steep -- I'd guess a $300 item retail elsewhere -- but since it is only available from Tesla, it is what it is. I think that it is definitely worth the money to have another quick charge option out on the road. See muleferg's review at the top of this post. He has one that he uses on his Model S and loves it.
How did you come up with that number? Do you know what it took for Tesla to come up with a reliable CHAdeMO adapter for all the different iterations of CHAdeMO charging stations out there? By the way do you know the original price was going to be $1000, and there was a waiting list for it at that price?
FarmerDave
Member
Just browsing PlugShare, it appears that most ChadeMo stations are at Nissan dealers.
Will they let a Tesla charge there? (why would they?)
What would they charge for the charge?
Will they let a Tesla charge there? (why would they?)
What would they charge for the charge?
Cottonwood
Roadster#433, Model S#S37
Boulder Nissan in Boulder, CO welcomes all, but they decided that 20kW is great for a Leaf and did not want to pay the demand charges for the full 40-50 kW. The CHAdeMO there is limited to 20 kW.
The Nissan dealer in Clarksville, TN is very welcoming to all EV owners. If you call them to ask - all you have to say is "I own a Tesla..." and they'll cut you off and tell you to bring it on down, they'd be happy to let you charge. I get the sense they have a semi-frequent visitor base, since Tesla seems to be ignoring the I-24 corridor from the midwest to the southeast.
They don't all require a three phase feed. Many of the lowered powered units on the market (20-25kW) are "single" phase.
These are the ones that I would imagine would be of interest to a Tesla owner for home use. There are CHAdeMO units that are FULLY compliant and safe, with UL or other recognized approval, for under $20,000.
The non-compliant, unapproved, homebrew model needs assembly, and that really expensive CHAdeMO plug and cable. I suspect the total price will mysteriously be closer to $10,000 when you're done.
TexasEV, I did say guess. Just a guess based on years of working with high current electronics. The real value to X owners is much higher, in allowing fast DC charging at the many CHAdeMO chargers out there.
I had not seen the previous $1,000 price tag, but I did know that there was quite a waiting list before. That's the reason that I'm suggesting in this post that people order one now, like I did. As the reality of the 48 amp onboard charger soaks in, the true value of the CHAdeMO adapter will become more apparent.
Ron
SigX VIN #484
Similar threads
