Chademo questions

[vitesse]

Just been for a long weekend to Paris in our MS70D and quite pleased as we managed to equal or beat the in-car nav consumption predictions and ABRP.

We're looking at property in France and this time next month we'll be in the sticks of the southern part of the Vendée. We'll granny charge at our friends' place where we are staying but I am beginning to wonder if a chademo might be a wise investment after all? We have the blue Type 2 cable but my wife wasn't that impressed when I said it would only be 50% faster than charging at home - max, and only if we could find a charger capable of 11kW.

What kind of charging rate can I realistically expect from a Chademo charger? I'm guessing the taper will be less steep than with at a supercharger but pretty similar at around half charge and onwards? Do you actually get a full 50kW at low SoC?

I think this would be a peace of mind purchase more than something we'd use a lot.

Thanks in anticipation!

 

[cezdoc]

Just been for a long weekend to Paris in our MS70D and quite pleased as we managed to equal or beat the in-car nav consumption predictions and ABRP.

We're looking at property in France and this time next month we'll be in the sticks of the southern part of the Vendée. We'll granny charge at our friends' place where we are staying but I am beginning to wonder if a chademo might be a wise investment after all? We have the blue Type 2 cable but my wife wasn't that impressed when I said it would only be 50% faster than charging at home - max, and only if we could find a charger capable of 11kW.

What kind of charging rate can I realistically expect from a Chademo charger? I'm guessing the taper will be less steep than with at a supercharger but pretty similar at around half charge and onwards? Do you actually get a full 50kW at low SoC?

I think this would be a peace of mind purchase more than something we'd use a lot.

Thanks in anticipation!

If I understand correctly, rapids with CHAdeMO have a max current output of ~125A and the resulting charge rate depends on the car’s battery voltage. As you have a MS70 (like me) the max V is 350 so your max charge rate will be around 44 kW. The battery voltage is a bit lower at low SOC so I’d expect ~35-40 kW on average. It’s still affected by a cold battery and will taper off when SOC is high (90%+). It does also depend on the charge unit, some older ones appear not to be able to give out as much power.

 

[vitesse]

Interesting, as we have slower charging at Superchargers anyway, so even 30-40kW charging is pretty decent.

@cezdoc is yours a classic 70D or a software limited 75? Apologies if I've already asked you this

 

[cezdoc]

Interesting, as we have slower charging at Superchargers anyway, so even 30-40kW charging is pretty decent.

@cezdoc is yours a classic 70D or a software limited 75? Apologies if I've already asked you this

Mine's a classic 70 - RWD, pre-facelift so although it lacks AWD it does have the compensation of a large frunk

 

[vitesse]

@cezd What miles does yours say (Typical) at 90% charge these days? Mine's 198-199 but Teslafi is showing a gentle increase over the last month or so.

 

[cezdoc]

@cezd What miles does yours say (Typical) at 90% charge these days? Mine's 198-199 but Teslafi is showing a gentle increase over the last month or so.

As it happens I charged to 90% on the weekend (home charger) and I have a note that it finished at 196 miles. Brand new it was 202 miles (I think the 70D would be slightly higher, so 198-199 looks to be within tolerance). Now just over 30K miles. I don't have a data logger app but do record home charge stats (it's impossible to track the home electricity consumption without subtracting the Tesla!) and I've only ever seen a gradual decrease in Typical range. Most of my charging is home/AC so perhaps that stops the cells getting out of balance.

 

[vitesse]

As it happens I charged to 90% on the weekend (home charger) and I have a note that it finished at 196 miles. Brand new it was 202 miles (I think the 70D would be slightly higher, so 198-199 looks to be within tolerance). Now just over 30K miles. I don't have a data logger app but do record home charge stats (it's impossible to track the home electricity consumption without subtracting the Tesla!) and I've only ever seen a gradual decrease in Typical range. Most of my charging is home/AC so perhaps that stops the cells getting out of balance.

That's good. Our car is almost up to 40K. We got it last May on 30K and it was 200 miles at 90%. Teslafi does a 100% charge estimate. The best I have seen is 223 miles but the average when we first had the care was really 222 and it's currently at 221 but was down to 219 a couple of months back. I have a feeling recent software updates have pushed the figure back up a bit.

Charging rate has definitely slowed but I am not sure if that's #charegate or the colder weather. 75kW at a low SoC at a SuC if we're lucky when it used to be 90+ - for a few minutes at least. Daily charging is at home, we only use SuC on trips.

Doing 360 miles from Dieppe to the Vendée next month - could be four stops; hoping we can beat the predictions again and limit that to 3.

 

[cezdoc]

That's good. Our car is almost up to 40K. We got it last May on 30K and it was 200 miles at 90%. Teslafi does a 100% charge estimate. The best I have seen is 223 miles but the average when we first had the care was really 222 and it's currently at 221 but was down to 219 a couple of months back. I have a feeling recent software updates have pushed the figure back up a bit.

Charging rate has definitely slowed but I am not sure if that's #charegate or the colder weather. 75kW at a low SoC at a SuC if we're lucky when it used to be 90+ - for a few minutes at least. Daily charging is at home, we only use SuC on trips.

Doing 360 miles from Dieppe to the Vendée next month - could be four stops; hoping we can beat the predictions again and limit that to 3.

Regarding #chargegate I've noticed two things with my car over the past 9 months or so - first, the Supercharging rate was definitely reduced overall following a software update in May/June last year and second, Supercharging rates now appear much more likely to be affected by cool battery temperatures. I think both are to help protect the battery and for me it hasn't really caused too much inconvenience (the loss of range associated with batterygate would be much more of an issue for long trips).

I like to use Abetterrouteplanner for long trips and they have updated their charging curves to account for the new supercharging profiles. I've found it's still pretty accurate provided the battery is nice and toasty: in December I did a 580 mile trip with 6 Supercharger stops in one day and it was spot on. These days I'm more confident at running the battery a bit lower (arriving with, say, 5-10%) which helps compensate for the slightly slower charge rates. At one stop the car managed to sustain a rate over 100 kW from 5% up to 10% which isn't too shabby.

 

[vitesse]

Regarding #chargegate I've noticed two things with my car over the past 9 months or so - first, the Supercharging rate was definitely reduced overall following a software update in May/June last year and second, Supercharging rates now appear much more likely to be affected by cool battery temperatures. I think both are to help protect the battery and for me it hasn't really caused too much inconvenience (the loss of range associated with batterygate would be much more of an issue for long trips).

I like to use Abetterrouteplanner for long trips and they have updated their charging curves to account for the new supercharging profiles. I've found it's still pretty accurate provided the battery is nice and toasty: in December I did a 580 mile trip with 6 Supercharger stops in one day and it was spot on. These days I'm more confident at running the battery a bit lower (arriving with, say, 5-10%) which helps compensate for the slightly slower charge rates. At one stop the car managed to sustain a rate over 100 kW from 5% up to 10% which isn't too shabby.

I use ABRP too and it was very accurate in the summer but less so since the cold weather - usually being more pessimistic.

The longest drive between charges was about 186 miles (276 Wh/Mile, 105.1% Efficiency, or 80% battery used) and we arrived at the charger with 11% - we had 102kW for one minute before it dropped to 92kW and steadily tapered from there. But that was 23C at the end of August.

Home to Folkestone Eurotunnel 10 days ago, 8C, 103 miles driven, 325 Wh/Mile (ABRP reckoned almost 400Wh/mile), 89.7% Efficiency, 52% battery used (33.41 kWh, so about 64.2kWh usable from a full battery to zero). We arrived with 47% charge so the charge rate wasn't very high - starting at 56kW.

The best winter SuC rate I've seen was 91kW @16% SoC but that dropped to 71kW after one minute.

The trip to France next week might dictate our thoughts on whether to get a Chademo or not. The CCS upgrade is around £450 iirc and I've seen that some new superchargers being installed (the 250kW type) are CCS-only. We'll be keeping our car at least another two years and expect to be doing a fair bit of driving in France and there are no superchargers particularly close to where we will be visiting. But then we stretched to get this car so we don't particularly want to spend on a facility we might hardly ever use.

 

[vitesse]

If the 70 battery we have has a usable 68.8kWh (according to here https://electrek.co/2016/12/14/tesla-battery-capacity/) when new it looks like 64.2kWh represents a 6.7% drop - which is a fair bit more than I thought based on the Typical miles people reported their 70Ds had when new (around 227-229 miles at 100% or around 4.5%.

I'm droning on a bit now

 

[mikemillar]

With the increase in the Supercharger distribution in France, a Chademo is becoming less of a necessity but still useful. I've never regretted having one. Auchan supermarkets are a good place to use them and they are free to charge. I use a KiWhi card. You might reasonably expect to get 30-40kW charge rate if not too full. Here's my Model S85 Chademo rapid charge at Beauvais in October, starting at 42% battery level. It's the lower green line, starting at 38kWh and dropping to 26kW at 87% battery level an hour and 3 cups of coffee later. I suffered a flat there, fortunately as I parked up on the charger, so I was there rather longer than expected! I always carry a spare tyre, a 19" just fits in the frunk of my RWD S85, so I was only there for 2 hours while recovery got it fitted.

 

[vitesse]

With the increase in the Supercharger distribution in France, a Chademo is becoming less of a necessity but still useful. I've never regretted having one. Auchan supermarkets are a good place to use them and they are free to charge. I use a KiWhi card. You might reasonably expect to get 30-40kW charge rate if not too full. Here's my Model S85 Chademo rapid charge at Beauvais in October, starting at 42% battery level. It's the lower green line, starting at 38kWh and dropping to 26kW at 87% battery level an hour and 3 cups of coffee later. I suffered a flat there, fortunately as I parked up on the charger, so I was there rather longer than expected! I always carry a spare tyre, a 19" just fits in the frunk of my RWD S85, so I was only there for 2 hours while recovery got it fitted.
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Thanks for that - very interesting.
Bad luck with the flat - that does concern me as there is no room in my dual motor front for a spare. I've never actually had a flat that required a tyre change outside the UK but there's always the chance of a first time!

 

[gangzoom]

If the 70 battery we have has a usable 68.8kWh (according to here Tesla’s hacked Battery Management System exposes the real usable capacity of its battery packs - Electrek) when new it looks like 64.2kWh represents a 6.7% drop

Don't read too much into those figures I've never seen anything close to 71kWh usable in our 75D and ScanMyTesla currently shows 64kWh useable.

As for DC Supercharging cap ScanMyTesla gives you that info too, the limiter starts at 2300kWh of DC charging I believe, the App also tells you the current max DC charge rate.

From memory though nearly evey village in France has 'fast' AC, so upto 17.5KW, more than enough for day to day trips. Infact when we went to France our car had an average SOC higher than at home. I just plugged in when ever we stopped for lunch/sight seeing etc. You do need a few charging cards though....just like the UK .

 

[vitesse]

Thanks @gangzoom - is that historical data for the life of the car? - I'm the second owner.

 

[gangzoom]

Life time of the car, if you are planning to keep the car for a while I find it useful. Certainly stops the need to constantly worry about degredation and/or Supercharger limitations due to battery status.

 

[vitesse]

Cool, according to Teslafi 2800kWh AC charging since we've had the car and 654kWh Supercharging.

 

[gangzoom]

Oh don't underestimate the power of the 3pin, or shall I say 2 pin plug converter hooked up to a 20 meter extension lead.

Our X fed off this for most of our trip in France, the plug is normally used for a lamp. Its slow, not pretty, but does the job, and actually much better use of your time than driving around looking for slow CHADEMO chargers- which will still eat into your DC charge limit and slow down your charge rate at Tesla Superchargers.

We had no issues at with the granny charger, most days the car sat at 100% SOC longer than I would ideally like!

 

[vitesse]

Fast AC charge would only be 11kW (or even 7kW) on Teslas with the standard onboard charger though?

 

[vitesse]

We'll be staying with French locals - we've stayed with them before and they have a (beautiful) new-build house in a small village near the market town of Fontenay-le-Comte. I don't think they have 3-phase but I'm hoping there is an equivalent of a 'Commando' outlet in the garage.

From memory there are only a few public chargers in Fontenay but I haven't checked recently.

I'm in the process of acquiring a polarity adapter, a proper EV-standard extension reel and a dry box. Anything else recommended?

 

[mikemillar]

Thanks for that - very interesting.
Bad luck with the flat - that does concern me as there is no room in my dual motor front for a spare. I've never actually had a flat that required a tyre change outside the UK but there's always the chance of a first time!

When we got our Model S in 2015 the tyres were difficult to find so I've always carried a spare cover on long journeys. It may be easier now and the Model 3 may be a common size, haven't looked into that. Unfortunately the RWD Model S is the only Tesla with a frunk big enough for the tyre. It sure made it much quicker to get going again. I couldn't have picked a better place for a flat though - got a warning as I stopped to plug in and by the time I'd got my first coffee it was obvious. They found a nail in the tyre, must have happened just before I stopped. Good thing it didn't happen on the Péage! Be prepared is my motto!