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Change from alcantara to cloth on PUP???

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I hope the car comes with batteries included and I mean the same lithium batteries we expect and not some other cheap downgraded "premium" batteries from another manufacturer. I mean will we really get the 310 mile range like the cars out now, or will it be more of a stretch to hit those numbers in the cars they are actually making for the public? I realize now that we probably won't get the 0-60 times most people are reporting, but we should be able to get them in one way or another. Even those numbers include roll-out, and require a 100% charge unlike the cars that have been reviewed.

beggars can't be choosers as the saying goes.
 

AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
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You can bitch about whatever you like. Just consider this... If you had placed your reservation 2 years ago, and then it turned out the car had a textile headliner all along, would you have even noticed? I sincerely doubt it. There was no alcantara on the website anywhere when you handed over your $1K refundable reservation deposit.

FWIW, Model 3 definitely had the Alcantara or like headliner in every demo and publicity shot vehicle between March 2016 and December 2017, including the March 31, 2016 unveil around the time the reservations started, and this continues to this date on the PR shots available from Tesla. No other headliner than the Alcantara(-like) can be seen in these, as far as I know, and I checked quite a bit before making this post.

The first notice of this headliner change was in delivered cars around the change of year 2017/2018 and then subsequently on the showroom cars in mid-January 2018. There are, of course, some other interior changes since March 2016, but arguably none as visually large and overarching ;) as the headliner, nor any that could be argued as lesser quality materials compared to what was shown...

Overall the Model 3 as sold in mid to late 2017 to employees and some California customers, was as expected or better, compared to the unveils in 2016/2017 and existing PR images. The headliner change in late December 2017/January 2018 was thus a surprise, and the material used (a weaved cloth) in the automotive market widely considered a less premium material than Alcantara(-like) which is always sold as the upgrade or higher-end option compared to weaved cloth - this I think at least is a factual statement.

If it bugs you, vote with your dollars. Don't buy the car.

Of course. However, when addressing people's concerns hearing them out has value. Hopefully this reception generates feedback for Tesla that allows them to improve the product and the communication in a way that helps sell the car, to this buyer too, rather than not IMO.
 

swegman

Active Member
Mar 27, 2012
1,580
1,645
Please correct me if I am wrong. I tend to be wrong now and then.

I also believe that Tesla has said to the people that money has changed hands they could walk with full refund.
/QUOTE]

I'm one of the people that configured, paid the additional $2,500 and then discovered a few days later via this forum that the Alcantara headliner was dropped. I've been trying to get answers from the DS person without success. I have NOT been told I can walk away from the deal and get all my money back. In fact, I'm not really getting any response to my concerns.

In my opinion, the Alcantara like material gives the interior of the car some "class". It is pretty plain otherwise.

My first Model S had Alcantara. My second Model S was delivered without it. Tesla said they had run out of the material and thus changed to the textile headliner to continue production. They offered me a $5,000 cost reduction to stay with the textile headliner. I declined the offer and had them retrofit the Alcantara headliner in the car. It meant that much to me.

I have requested that Tesla either retrofit the Alcantara in my Model 3 (if it is delivered without it, which is my preference), reduce the price of the PUP or offer something else (such as, for example, perhaps waive the extra $1K cost of upgrading to FSD after delivery of the car), but have heard nothing back from Tesla. I have also told them I am considering canceling the order over this issue and if I do I expect a full refund as it would be canceled solely due to a change made by Tedla AFTER I configured.

To date, all I'm told is wait to a VIN is assigned and they will then see if it will have the Alcantara headliner, as it seems some cars are being shipped with it and some without it.
 
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voip-ninja

Give me some sugar baby
Mar 15, 2012
4,272
5,386
Colorado
You can bitch about whatever you like. Just consider this... If you had placed your reservation 2 years ago, and then it turned out the car had a textile headliner all along, would you have even noticed? I sincerely doubt it. There was no alcantara on the website anywhere when you handed over your $1K refundable reservation deposit.

If it bugs you, vote with your dollars. Don't buy the car.

There is another option which is to buy the car but make your displeasure known to Tesla so that they carefully consider other future changes that they might be considering making.

Let me tell you a brief story. In 2010 Apple released the iPhone 4 and people loved it. Soon after release it was discovered that holding the iPhone 4 certain ways (covering the antenna bands) greatly diminished the radio performance of the phone which could result in dropped calls or poor internet speeds.

This was soon coined Antennagate

People still wanted their iPhone but they were disappointed that Apple released a product that performed this way.

Even though the majority of iPhone owners were happy with the product, Steve Jobs raced in to fix this PR nightmare. Apple put together a press event in which they painstakingly showed journalists (and the public) the kind of testing that went into designing the radio antennas on their devices.... they also demonstrated how every phone has reception challenges depending on the way it is held. They did this by demonstrating that their competitors devices also behaved this same way to varying degrees.

Then, in a final PR coup, Steve Jobs announced that everyone who purchased or had already purchased an iPhone 4 got a free case, which would mitigate any antenna performance issues they had.

Antenna Gate was fixed.

Doing the right thing, in this case with Tesla would be Elon Musk doing a Mea Culpa, explaining why the change was made and offering some token item to those who are dissatisfied with the materials change.

It would also demonstrate that Tesla understands that while they have the right to make changes to their product in order to keep the manufacturing line moving they need to be more open and honest with their customers.
 

outdoors

.
Supporting Member
Aug 10, 2014
1,869
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Mountain West
I reserved a car, I ordered while they were promoting the alcantara in the car, my car was built and a vin was assigned. While waiting for delivery this BS started. I contacted the Tesla delivery specialist to confirm that my car would be one with alcantara as promoted. I was told that they could guarantee it didn’t and I could cancel. I was baited, I ordered, it was switched, I canceled.

So far this is the only person I have run across that was dissatisfied at the point of ordering thinking they were getting Alcantara that said no mas. Legitimate beef. Got them excited and then poof. Tesla should make it right in this case. Right now I am seeing in the 50's delivered to customers non employees that are forum members. My only point is that many of the so called offended are using this as an opportunity to be upset for the sake of being upset. I sincerely doubt many or any intend to cancel over Alcantaragate. I am keeping track in my Alcantaragate calculator. I better not see any delivery pictures from those folks. No Tesla Grins either.


Tesla should re-shoot the photos on the site as soon as possible. I invited more of the wronged to share the discontent, but it seems they are probably out driving the Model 3 they decided to keep. Probably grinning. Showing it to other reservation holders. Maybe saying wow I am glad I got this car.

Model year car companies are the normal. Tesla is not model year based. The creates intentional vagueness and sometimes unintentional changes that are problematic. While the first thought might be to hide or deflect these changes, it should not be the first choice.

The reservation process was created to kind of alleviate this type of concern. As others have mentioned over the years about different model changes and different options being available right after configuration. Those in the border years of AP1/2 or not having it at all. Even Alcantara for a P100D that was supposed to be present and wasn't.

From what I have read Tesla has always made it right for those who have configured and get a different car. Not oh I saw a clay mock up and it was this. Or the white seats had black piping in the photos sent out 1 year ago.

Again If you have a reservation that is the point where you put a deposit for a place in line and time that the car S/X/3 is ready for configuration. If you choose configuration that is the point in time you get what is being produced. This is not a comfortable feeling for many:

Example when my 100D was made it was the last of the 42 AMP versions. They moved to 72AMP right after as standard. Tesla has to deliver someone at least a 42AMP as they configured. If they do 72AMP. Someone will be happy. However some will whine and complain that they did not get the 72 even though they configured 6 hours before the change. That is the problem with intra-year changes. So what is the end result. Almost all of us will have Unicorns to some degree. There will be multiple changes forever ongoing with the Model 3 and all Tesla cars. Who knows some other car companies might start operating this way when they realize the technology in the cars needs to be ever changing not just by model year.

So what was Tesla thinking with the 3? The true reservation process was not used as it is in the S/X. My guess is someone said hey lets match cars with reservations. Batch the cars out. Then we can pump them out quicker before we do traditional ordering with SR/LR/PUP/NONPUP.

Only one problem. Not all the cars were the same. Oops. Then we used a little BS to make ourselves look better or worse. Now all our pics need to be redone.

I think the traditional build it as they come model would not have moved cars as fast as they liked which was the reasoning. Still not fast enough IMHO. Question to others. If they did true reservations would this be a problem? Change was made. People informed, pics updated. New configures get this. What happens when they change the seats to have more or less side bolsters? Will people say the car I have never seen in person is not the car I thought it would be? I quit. Sure. They can. That is the really cool thing about reservations. You don't have to take it.

Optics on the situation were not the best. This is a learning company. Sometimes customers are willing to adopt this. Sometimes they aren't. Maybe a nicer way of saying that if you can't deal with it now, you might never be able to.

Last comment on this issue. I second above comments. One should contact and rightly let them know how you feel. Coming here is great to vent, but nothing like sending a respectful comment to the company. Companies don't change if they aren't told. I for one chimed into executive response for the sake of others complaining that the optics made me have to explain your behavior rather than the beautiful car. Gifts for people that haven't even configured. Not going to happen. Sorry.
 
So far this is the only person I have run across that was dissatisfied at the point of ordering thinking they were getting Alcantara that said no mas. Legitimate beef. Got them excited and then poof. Tesla should make it right in this case. Right now I am seeing in the 50's delivered to customers non employees that are forum members. My only point is that many of the so called offended are using this as an opportunity to be upset for the sake of being upset. I sincerely doubt many or any intend to cancel over Alcantaragate. I am keeping track in my Alcantaragate calculator. I better not see any delivery pictures from those folks. No Tesla Grins either.


Tesla should re-shoot the photos on the site as soon as possible. I invited more of the wronged to share the discontent, but it seems they are probably out driving the Model 3 they decided to keep. Probably grinning. Showing it to other reservation holders. Maybe saying wow I am glad I got this car.

Model year car companies are the normal. Tesla is not model year based. The creates intentional vagueness and sometimes unintentional changes that are problematic. While the first thought might be to hide or deflect these changes, it should not be the first choice.

The reservation process was created to kind of alleviate this type of concern. As others have mentioned over the years about different model changes and different options being available right after configuration. Those in the border years of AP1/2 or not having it at all. Even Alcantara for a P100D that was supposed to be present and wasn't.

From what I have read Tesla has always made it right for those who have configured and get a different car. Not oh I saw a clay mock up and it was this. Or the white seats had black piping in the photos sent out 1 year ago.

Again If you have a reservation that is the point where you put a deposit for a place in line and time that the car S/X/3 is ready for configuration. If you choose configuration that is the point in time you get what is being produced. This is not a comfortable feeling for many:

Example when my 100D was made it was the last of the 42 AMP versions. They moved to 72AMP right after as standard. Tesla has to deliver someone at least a 42AMP as they configured. If they do 72AMP. Someone will be happy. However some will whine and complain that they did not get the 72 even though they configured 6 hours before the change. That is the problem with intra-year changes. So what is the end result. Almost all of us will have Unicorns to some degree. There will be multiple changes forever ongoing with the Model 3 and all Tesla cars. Who knows some other car companies might start operating this way when they realize the technology in the cars needs to be ever changing not just by model year.

So what was Tesla thinking with the 3? The true reservation process was not used as it is in the S/X. My guess is someone said hey lets match cars with reservations. Batch the cars out. Then we can pump them out quicker before we do traditional ordering with SR/LR/PUP/NONPUP.

Only one problem. Not all the cars were the same. Oops. Then we used a little BS to make ourselves look better or worse. Now all our pics need to be redone.

I think the traditional build it as they come model would not have moved cars as fast as they liked which was the reasoning. Still not fast enough IMHO. Question to others. If they did true reservations would this be a problem? Change was made. People informed, pics updated. New configures get this. What happens when they change the seats to have more or less side bolsters? Will people say the car I have never seen in person is not the car I thought it would be? I quit. Sure. They can. That is the really cool thing about reservations. You don't have to take it.

Optics on the situation were not the best. This is a learning company. Sometimes customers are willing to adopt this. Sometimes they aren't. Maybe a nicer way of saying that if you can't deal with it now, you might never be able to.

Last comment on this issue. I second above comments. One should contact and rightly let them know how you feel. Coming here is great to vent, but nothing like sending a respectful comment to the company. Companies don't change if they aren't told. I for one chimed into executive response for the sake of others complaining that the optics made me have to explain your behavior rather than the beautiful car. Gifts for people that haven't even configured. Not going to happen. Sorry.

So I ask again, if my day to configure comes and the website still shows the alcantara interior should I be one of the chosen few that gets it made right? I am ordering off what I see on the website after all.

This is the situation most buyers will bein because most buyers aren't perusing Tesla forums and have no idea this is going on. They are going to look at the web site pictures and then be surprised when that isn't delivered.
 
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ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,933
20,707
North Bay, CA
So I ask again, if my day to configure comes and the website still shows the alcantara interior should I be one of the chosen few that gets it made right? I am ordering off what I see on the website after all.

This is the situation most buyers will bein because most buyers aren't perusing Tesla forums and have no idea this is going on. They are going to look at the web site pictures and then be surprised when that isn't delivered.
I'll say it again - you're not going to order, right? I can't imagine having these feelings about BMW, going to post on a BMW forum, and still buying a BMW. You're setting yourself up to be disappointed in some way, and I don't want to see that for you.
 
I'll say it again - you're not going to order, right? I can't imagine having these feelings about BMW, going to post on a BMW forum, and still buying a BMW. You're setting yourself up to be disappointed in some way, and I don't want to see that for you.

I guess you won't answer the question.

Of course I am going to order. Your argument is equivalent to people that say "if you don't like it you can just get out" in response to someone criticizing something the Government is doing. It is the Tesla Fanboy way, agree with everything Tesla does or get out. That is what you are saying.

Care to actually answer the question now? If I configure based on the pictures on the website as of the minute of my order do I get to be one of the chosen ones who has a right to be upset? You seem to have appointed yourself as the gatekeeper for who gets to be angry about the switch so i want to make sure I am within your parameters.
 

outdoors

.
Supporting Member
Aug 10, 2014
1,869
3,361
Mountain West
I guess you won't answer the question.

Of course I am going to order. Your argument is equivalent to people that say "if you don't like it you can just get out" in response to someone criticizing something the Government is doing. It is the Tesla Fanboy way, agree with everything Tesla does or get out. That is what you are saying.

Care to actually answer the question now? If I configure based on the pictures on the website as of the minute of my order do I get to be one of the chosen ones who has a right to be upset? You seem to have appointed yourself as the gatekeeper for who gets to be angry about the switch so i want to make sure I am within your parameters.

I will answer instead. Of course you do have that right then. Please let us all know when your number comes up and you get to configure. At that time. The seatbelts will fit better and be of softer material. The auto dimming side view mirrors will be changed. Maybe some better sound reduction as well. Who knows suspension might be a bit softer by then to appease more folks.

@jayhawk3 Name calling come on. Only after at least like 50 posts dude. That way we can figure out that you are a nice person to begin with and just have a beef.
 

ohmman

Upright Member
Global Moderator
Feb 13, 2014
10,933
20,707
North Bay, CA
I guess you won't answer the question.

Of course I am going to order. Your argument is equivalent to people that say "if you don't like it you can just get out" in response to someone criticizing something the Government is doing. It is the Tesla Fanboy way, agree with everything Tesla does or get out. That is what you are saying.
Equivalent? Saying that someone has to move from their home is equivalent to saying that someone might not be happy with a purchase that they haven't made and therefore shouldn't make it? No. If you want that analogy, it's much closer to saying, "You've mentioned a number of things you hate about Portugal. Why are you moving there?" See the difference?

You never asked me a question. I assumed you were directing it to someone else, or were being rhetorical. Everyone has a right to be upset about what they want to be upset about. And everyone else has the right to roll their eyes if they disagree, or rally behind that person if they agree. It seems you want the right to be upset, but do not want to grant others the right to disagree with you.

I seriously think you're going to be disappointed in something with your delivery. I don't want to see people spend a bunch of money on a car and be disappointed. That's why I mentioned this twice. It's also why this thread rubs me the wrong way a bit. There are going to be future owners reading this who wouldn't have noticed or cared otherwise, and it's going to detract from the pleasure they get out of their purchase. I just think that's a bit of a shame.
 
As someone who has 1) always driven Honda/Acura (cloth headliner for life :D) and 2) got to spend almost 2 hours in a new Model 3 with cloth headliner last weekend, cloth will be just fine for me. Honestly, you don't even notice it, especially with the glass roof. Dark alcantara on the doors is much more functional since you make contact with the material EVERY TIME you go to open the door from inside. Light colored cloth on the doors would suck after a few days, especially if you have small kids.
 
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I can see some people going to the aftermarket for a fix for this. Once AWD/White/possibly performance is available in the configurator and if cloth is still the only available option from Tesla I'll start the search for a *reasonably priced* ultra-suede headliner replacement. From some quick googling looks like a lot of it is sold by the yard so would just need some calculations for how many yards the model 3 interior would take. And then finding a local installer. I'm sad that I will have to spend that extra money to get something that up until recently was part of the price of the car.
 
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@ohmman and @jayhawk3, I feel like both of you may be caught in the weeds a bit and are missing the point of most of this thread. The bulk of the intensity in this thread isn't about the headliner, it's about many of the Tesla faithful becoming angry with Tesla not for the headliner, but for Tesla's blatant lie or purposeful deception exposing an alternate lie. I'm 24 and own a Model X. I never thought I'd own such a car and am as big a fanboy as anyone you've seen, and this is the first time I'm been this disappointed. I believe my prior post explains perfectly why me and many others are upset, and I've included it below.

The problem is Tesla's "statement", which doesn't count as a statement, in fact that's the opposite, it's a -1 statement because it says the change "has always been planned at this stage of production". Uh-huh...... that was either

1) a huge lie, or
2) a huge slip up exposing a different lie.

1) If something changed and Tesla decided to discontinue it (alcantara became too expensive or they had a bad relationship with the supplier), then saying it's "always been planned" is a complete lie, and they ought to tell us the truth. Shame.

2) If they're being honest and it's always been planned at this stage of production, then there's only 1 reason why, and that was to get unwarranted positive reviews from the press who saw alcantara/get people pumped to put down $1000 for something they knew wouldn't pan out, which also in hindsight counts as a lie. If you don't agree with either of these scenarios, then someone come up with a better one! WHY would you PLAN to make only ~2000 cars one way then switch it up???

Not to mention the black (not grey) headliner in demo cars with the ultra white seats, those have just never been made at all. Why would you "PLAN" for that??
 

stopcrazypp

Well-Known Member
Dec 8, 2007
12,667
8,563
@ohmman and @jayhawk3, I feel like both of you may be caught in the weeds a bit and are missing the point of most of this thread. The bulk of the intensity in this thread isn't about the headliner, it's about many of the Tesla faithful becoming angry with Tesla not for the headliner, but for Tesla's blatant lie or purposeful deception exposing an alternate lie. I'm 24 and own a Model X. I never thought I'd own such a car and am as big a fanboy as anyone you've seen, and this is the first time I'm been this disappointed. I believe my prior post explains perfectly why me and many others are upset, and I've included it below.

The problem is Tesla's "statement", which doesn't count as a statement, in fact that's the opposite, it's a -1 statement because it says the change "has always been planned at this stage of production". Uh-huh...... that was either

1) a huge lie, or
2) a huge slip up exposing a different lie.

1) If something changed and Tesla decided to discontinue it (alcantara became too expensive or they had a bad relationship with the supplier), then saying it's "always been planned" is a complete lie, and they ought to tell us the truth. Shame.

2) If they're being honest and it's always been planned at this stage of production, then there's only 1 reason why, and that was to get unwarranted positive reviews from the press who saw alcantara/get people pumped to put down $1000 for something they knew wouldn't pan out, which also in hindsight counts as a lie. If you don't agree with either of these scenarios, then someone come up with a better one! WHY would you PLAN to make only ~2000 cars one way then switch it up???

Not to mention the black (not grey) headliner in demo cars with the ultra white seats, those have just never been made at all. Why would you "PLAN" for that??
It makes sense if this is synced with Model S/X. In other words, it's not a change specifically for Model 3, but rather material changes across the line. Similar to the change in seats in Model S/X, vegan options, etc.

Edit: this is just a side note to people new to how Tesla operates. Tesla does not respect conventional model years of any sort. They frequently do part changes mid-year and it's possible to get mix and match (not every part being the latest version).
 
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AnxietyRanger

Well-Known Member
Aug 22, 2014
9,408
7,978
EU
It makes sense if this is synced with Model S/X. In other words, it's not a change specifically for Model 3, but rather material changes across the line. Similar to the change in seats in Model S/X, vegan options, etc.

A useful thing to consider. Thank you.

I have been trying to pin-point whether or not this change applies to Model S/X, but so far the data points have been contradictory. Some say they even received cars without it already, some reps say this affects both Model 3 and S/X, but then some say it does not affect S/X...

Tesla drops Alcantara headliners from Model S/X?

Is it supposed to be this hard to know what headliner one would get, though... :)
 
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As a comparison... Just until a couple of weeks ago all pictures showing X/S interior on tesla.com did show cars with Alcantara dashboard. This was removed in July last year, so pictures with incorrect information was all over the web page for 6 months after the option got discontinued.

Pictured Model 3 on tesla.com does not equal that it is exactly what you get in your car. On most occasions when it comes to continuous changes, it is for the better. And then we have some exceptions to this. Just get used to this when buying a Tesla. For those who can't stand it, buy something German instead where you exactly know what you get.
 

Sunshine State

Automotive Enthusiast
Jul 13, 2017
1,424
1,194
Florida
It makes sense if this is synced with Model S/X. In other words, it's not a change specifically for Model 3, but rather material changes across the line. Similar to the change in seats in Model S/X, vegan options, etc.

Edit: this is just a side note to people new to how Tesla operates. Tesla does not respect conventional model years of any sort. They frequently do part changes mid-year and it's possible to get mix and match (not every part being the latest version).
Trying to fix problems mid year because they didn’t get it right in the beginning of the year due to poor planning or insufficient development is hardly an excuse. A competent manufacturer should know what they are building at least by the time the buyer orders a product, if they don’t there is a bigger problem. The seat material downgrading in the S/X was on the website and it was available to order a while before any were in the field to see. The headliner downgrading was a surprise to buyers and media alike almost as if it was a surprise to Tesla not long before. Yet Tesla says it was the plan all along even though some cars have mix and match materials.
 

Sunshine State

Automotive Enthusiast
Jul 13, 2017
1,424
1,194
Florida
Just get used to this when buying a Tesla. For those who can't stand it, buy something German instead where you exactly know what you get.
It is not just with German cars, pretty much any successful manufacturer delivers what they advertise or they eventually fail. How can they know their costs and then operate a profitable business if they just put random parts in their cars without any plan? Tesla is a profitable business isn’t it? Maybe they should take some lessons from other manufacturers that are disciplined and profitable.
 
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