Charge in Range; Drive in Standard?

[smorgasbord]

If this has been asked before, it's buried and hard to find.

If I charge in Range and then drive in Standard, am I getting the full battery use?

You see, I tried this last Sunday. I had charged overnight in Standard. That morning, not knowing just how far I was going to drive, I put it in Range and continued the charge for a bit. It didn't "fill up."

Then I switched to Standard and started driving. I recall seeing more miles available. But, I noticed the "Regen" light flashing during what would have been normal regen times. The car still slowed down noticeably. It ceased flashing fairly quickly.

I had thought that even in Standard mode the car would regen to charge the battery as long as it wasn't completely totally full. Was the regen flash warning me that it was there, or just close, or something else?

Is this a non-optimal thing to do? From reading Tesla's old blog post on battery life, Range charge tops out at 97%, Standard at 90%. I probably went to 94% at most. That seemed like a decent thing to do in terms of ensuring I had more ranged but not paying the full battery life penalty of going to a complete Range charge.

Comments anyone on what I experienced?

 

[widodh]

If you charge in Standard, regen short work from the start. Only after charging in Range it'll be disabled for the first few KM's.

In Range, it won't fill up fully, you could hit the 'top off' button, that will charge it even further.

When you drive in Standard, you're not able to access the bottom 10% of the battery, thus having less range. In Max Range mode you'll be able to access it and having more range.

The general advice is, use standard mode as much as possible, but charging in range from now and then shouldn't be that bad.

 

[suxxer]

If I charge in Range and then drive in Standard, am I getting the full battery use?

Yes. If you switch from Range to Standard the Car will only hide approx 24 miles from you (which is the reserve which is only available in Standard).

So if you charge full in Range you get say 237 ideal miles. If you then switch back to Standard the range drops around 24 miles to 213 ideal miles.

But, I noticed the "Regen" light flashing during what would have been normal regen times. The car still slowed down noticeably. It ceased flashing fairly quickly.

I didn't see that so far. Maybe the battery was too hot because of the charge...that could have an impact on how the car uses regen.

Is this a non-optimal thing to do?

No - when I charge Range I often Switch it back to Standard while driving. I just don't like driving around "without Reserves" (although I know the total range stays the same...). Do what you like better - I prefer to unlock the reserves only when i need them.

 

[JRod0802]

No - when I charge Range I often Switch it back to Standard while driving. I just don't like driving around "without Reserves" (although I know the total range stays the same...). Do what you like better - I prefer to unlock the reserves only when i need them.

Doesn't driving in range mode also limit your power to half the maximum (which I guess would be 100 kW)? That would be another reason to drive in Standard vs. Range.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

Doesn't driving in range mode also limit your power to half the maximum (which I guess would be 100 kW)? That would be another reason to drive in Standard vs. Range.

That's a good question. I started out driving in range mode because I don't feel the need for full power in this car. But when I mentioned this to my salesman, he said that I shouldn't drive around in Range mode because it would allow the battery to get hotter and would shorten the life. Subsequently, others have told me that my salesman was wrong, and that the Performance mode is the one where the battery gets hotter - although someone did theorize that maybe Range mode doesn't run the cooling fans as much because they also drain the battery, and perhaps that ends up allowing the battery to get hotter. Anyway, it would be nice to get the definitive story on this (and I suppose with firmware upgrades that these little details could change).

 

[Doug_G]

That's a good question. I started out driving in range mode because I don't feel the need for full power in this car. But when I mentioned this to my salesman, he said that I shouldn't drive around in Range mode because it would allow the battery to get hotter and would shorten the life. Subsequently, others have told me that my salesman was wrong, and that the Performance mode is the one where the battery gets hotter - although someone did theorize that maybe Range mode doesn't run the cooling fans as much because they also drain the battery, and perhaps that ends up allowing the battery to get hotter. Anyway, it would be nice to get the definitive story on this (and I suppose with firmware upgrades that these little details could change).

I'm pretty sure that is wrong. I remember reading somewhere that Range mode charging pre-chills the pack, in fact.

I recently did a road trip in Range mode in moderately warm weather. After driving about 200 km I checked the battery and it was quite cool; in fact, it was still on the first tic. The motor was running a little warm at the third tic, and the PEM was on the second tic.

 

[TEG]

If you charge in Standard, regen short work from the start. Only after charging in Range it'll be disabled for the first few KM's.

In Range, it won't fill up fully, you could hit the 'top off' button, that will charge it even further.

When you drive in Standard, you're not able to access the bottom 10% of the battery, thus having less range. In Max Range mode you'll be able to access it and having more range.

The general advice is, use standard mode as much as possible, but charging in range from now and then shouldn't be that bad.

By the way, the Nissan Leaf has almost identical behavior. In their case they just call it "charge to 100%" vs "charge to 80%".
They recommend using the "charge to 80%" setting as much as possible, saving 100% for times when you really need it.

 

[donauker]

But when I mentioned this to my salesman, he said that I shouldn't drive around in Range mode because it would allow the battery to get hotter and would shorten the life.

This is correct. Yes, charging in range mode will do extra cooling of the pack so that air conditioning is not needed as quickly to cool the pack. But driving in range mode will also set a higher temperature threshold on the pack to enhance range by using less power for pack cooling when it eventually does heat up.

You can easily test this in hot weather when the air conditioning is taken by the pack while driving in standard mode just switch to range mode and it will stop or return to cabin cooling as long as the pack doesn't reach the higher threshold.

 

[SByer]

By the way, the Nissan Leaf has almost identical behavior. In their case they just call it "charge to 100%" vs "charge to 80%".
They recommend using the "charge to 80%" setting as much as possible, saving 100% for times when you really need it.

Kinda silly that they don't then expose SOC as a percentage as well, no?

 

[user497]

I always charge in standard mode and drive in standard mode. In over a year I've never charged in range mode. I only turn on the performance mode when I am feeling frisky on the highway. I once asked one of the service people what mode people usually drive in and he said a lot of people just keep it in performance mode all the time. It kind of makes sense that if you are going to buy this car you will want the best performance you can get (kind of like why I drive it every day - seems a shame not to). But standard mode is fine for most of my commute and switching to performance mode is always a fun treat - like turning on the afterburners. What modes do you drive in typically? I wonder if we could do a poll on that.

 

[TEG]

Kinda silly that they don't then expose SOC as a percentage as well, no?

Yup. Various focus groups probably said they needed to dumb it down to a simple set of bars.
Some folks are working on a SOC gauge with other functions. Among other things they hope to make it so you can pick an arbitrary charge level target %.

 

[Doug_G]

I did a Range mode charge for the first time ever last week, after owning the car nearly a year, because I needed to drive over 400 km. Why else would you need it?

I probably turn on Performance once a month, and I've never charged in that mode. Going to try autocross this weekend though...

 

[strider]

By the way, the Nissan Leaf has almost identical behavior. In their case they just call it "charge to 100%" vs "charge to 80%".
They recommend using the "charge to 80%" setting as much as possible, saving 100% for times when you really need it.

I thought Standard mode in the Roadster charges to 90% and then hides the bottom 10% for an effective 80% usable pack capacity. Is that what the Leaf does as well or it truly just charges to 80% and lets you go to 0?

 

[TEG]

I thought Standard mode in the Roadster charges to 90% and then hides the bottom 10% for an effective 80% usable pack capacity. Is that what the Leaf does as well or it truly just charges to 80% and lets you go to 0?

Umm, probably the latter. So not exactly the same as the Roadster, but still an "80% of capacity" alternative.

 

[scott451]

I thought Standard mode in the Roadster charges to 90% and then hides the bottom 10% for an effective 80% usable pack capacity. Is that what the Leaf does as well or it truly just charges to 80% and lets you go to 0?

Most of the time a standard mode charge will charge the battery to 85%. I've noticed on older batteries that this creaps up towards 90%.

 

[vfx]

Most of the time a standard mode charge will charge the battery to 85%. I've noticed on older batteries that this creaps up towards 90%.

Do you think that's programmed? Those of us that just look at the VDS readout of Ideal Miles avalible would be fooled into thinking our batteries are not degrading...

 

[benji4]

Do you think that's programmed? Those of us that just look at the VDS readout of Ideal Miles avalible would be fooled into thinking our batteries are not degrading...

That sounds like an effective trick. Charging only to 85% when the battery is new is probably nicer on it than going to 90%, and moving toward 90% as it ages at least for a couple of years would give the feel that the pack is not degrading. Of course once it degrades further than the first 5% or so the buffer is gone, and further degredation might feel a bit painful from that point. Either way it really does seem like the Roadster's battery pack is holding up much better than Tesla originally promised which is very good news.

 

[S-2000 Roadster]

I'm not so sure about the reasons offered for this 85% versus 90% phenomenon.

Keep in mind that charging to 100% in Range mode doesn't always reach 100% on the first attempt. It takes about an hour of settling and then a manual Top Off to really reach 100%. My salesman explained that the individual cells end up with differing charges, but settling time allows them to even out a bit, making room for more charge.

While we're throwing conspiracy theories about, I submit that the 85% result when charging in Standard mode is merely the pre-settling amount. Give it an hour and then Top Off in Standard mode again and see if you don't get to 90%