Charger Configuration and Install New M3

[karpetkutter]

Hi Guys , I have just recently received my invite to configure my M3 and now that I have the order setup its time to think about chargers.

Where did you guys go for chargers? I was looking at the Tesla charger but not sure if you get the rebate on it?

It wasnt until I was on here that it dawned on me that I better check my panel for capacity as well. I recently converted my Dryer from Electric to Nat Gas so I have an open 30 breaker wondering if that will suffice. When they talk about charging times how many amps are you guys setup for with your M3s?

Any info at all will be very helpful as I would like to have some knowledge on what I am asking for prior to calling for quotes etc.


Thanks in Advance

 

[rdturner0]

I just ordered my Tesla HPWC (High Power Wall Connector) yesterday. It's one of the cheapest "chargers" available unless you go with regular electrical sockets. It's eligible for the rebate, see here for the list: Eligible electric vehicle charging stations

You might find this thread useful as well:
What is the cheapest Ontario EVIP approved charger?

 

[ZooSean]

Hi Guys , I have just recently received my invite to configure my M3 and now that I have the order setup its time to think about chargers.

Where did you guys go for chargers? I was looking at the Tesla charger but not sure if you get the rebate on it?

It wasnt until I was on here that it dawned on me that I better check my panel for capacity as well. I recently converted my Dryer from Electric to Nat Gas so I have an open 30 breaker wondering if that will suffice. When they talk about charging times how many amps are you guys setup for with your M3s?

Any info at all will be very helpful as I would like to have some knowledge on what I am asking for prior to calling for quotes etc.


Thanks in Advance

I believe Tesla charger could turn it on 48Amp, 40Amp and 32Amp, depends what you need. I think that you will not use more than above 3 options..

 

[goto10]

The Tesla charger (called a "Wall Connector" for those who care about terminology) can provide up to 48A of current to your Model 3, which will charge at about 44 miles per hour but that requires a 60A circuit and breaker to be installed. (Breakers are always sized so that their maximum load will be 80% of their rated capacity) With your existing 30A circuit you'll be able to charge at up to 24A which will give you 22 miles per hour of charging which should be plenty for most people. This is what I'm doing right now and it's plenty fast for overnight charging.

Other brands of chargers will also work and your Model 3 will come with an adapter for the J1772 connector that non-Tesla chargers have but unless you have other brands of EVs to charge the Tesla charger is a good value and won't require the use of an adapter. There's also the gee-whiz feature of having a button on the charger handle that automatically opens the charge port on your car.

The most economical option would be to use the existing 30A breaker to charge at 24A using the portable charger (called the "UMC" - Universal Mobile Connector) which will be included with your car. Many people use the UMC as their primary charging solution. You'd need to get a 30A outlet installed near the car and have wire run from the outlet to that 30A breaker. The outlet type would most likely be a "NEMA 14-30" (your electrician will confirm) which will require the matching adapter from Tesla for $35:
Model S/X/3 Gen 2 NEMA Adapters

 

[ZooSean]

I have 32A J1773 charger already at my Garage. I am currently struggling if I would install another Tesla Wall charger (use a switch between J1773 charger and Tesla charger).

To keep the J1773 charger is in case I need it in the future for non Tesla cars.

 

[RapTelligence]

After lots of deliberations I decided to just take the plunge and upgrade my panel to 200A and install the Tesla HPWC. I found a Tesla approved installer to do the work for a reasonable rate. The work is not yet done but my conversations with the company were very encouraging. Getting 48A via 60A breaker is what I am doing. Its a bit of a overkill for my needs but if I was forced to upgrade my panel, I might as well do it that way.

And the great part is the same guys do Solar installations. That's something I want to do in two years.

 

[DekiTM3]

Does the Model 3 come with the Nema 14-50 adapter at delivery? Or do we have to purchase the $35 adapter over the website?

 

[goto10]

Does the Model 3 come with the Nema 14-50 adapter at delivery? Or do we have to purchase the $35 adapter over the website?

It comes with a 14-50 adapter and an adapter for a standard 120v wall outlet.

 

[rdturner0]

I have 32A J1773 charger already at my Garage. I am currently struggling if I would install another Tesla Wall charger (use a switch between J1773 charger and Tesla charger).

To keep the J1773 charger is in case I need it in the future for non Tesla cars.

If you already have a J1772 charger, you can either use the adapter that comes with the car, or buy a second one so you can keep one at home. That's your lowest cost and lowest effort solution with what you have. You can decide at any time later if you want to change, but for the sake of reducing waste, etc, I'd stick with what you have for now until you decide that it's not working out for you for some reason (at least that's my opinion).

 

[ZooSean]

If you already have a J1772 charger, you can either use the adapter that comes with the car, or buy a second one so you can keep one at home. That's your lowest cost and lowest effort solution with what you have. You can decide at any time later if you want to change, but for the sake of reducing waste, etc, I'd stick with what you have for now until you decide that it's not working out for you for some reason (at least that's my opinion).

If EVIP still exist by the time I have got my Model 3, I think that I still can claim 1000$ charger rebate. That is one of my reason to think of install a Tesla charger, 2nd reason is that my cable from basement panel to the garage could handle 60amps, Tesla charger could do 48amps (my J1773 could only do 32Amps), and I only need change a breaker to 60amps on the panel.

From 12AM to 7AM, Powerstream only charges me 2cents per Kwh, and with 32Amp is about a bit short time to do a full charge .

 

[RapTelligence]

I too have gone the Tesla wall connector 60A route. Might as well do it right

 

[rdturner0]

If EVIP still exist by the time I have got my Model 3, I think that I still can claim 1000$ charger rebate. That is one of my reason to think of install a Tesla charger, 2nd reason is that my cable from basement panel to the garage could handle 60amps, Tesla charger could do 48amps (my J1773 could only do 32Amps), and I only need change a breaker to 60amps on the panel.

From 12AM to 7AM, Powerstream only charges me 2cents per Kwh, and with 32Amp is about a bit short time to do a full charge .

Note that you won't be able to claim $1000 for the charger rebate (even if it exists) as there is a maximum of 50% of the value of the charger up to $500, and the HPWC doesn't cost $1000, so you will only get around $374 in rebates for the charger itself. You can get up to $500 again for the installation/inspection costs up to a maximum of 50% of those costs, so depending on your installation costs, you may or may not get the amount.

Actually, unless you have a disconnect close to the "appliance" (the charger), you cannot "legally" go above a 50A breaker. Electrical code requires that "appliances" above 50A have a disconnect in close proximity to the appliance. So, if you don't have that, it would be required. Cost isn't much, but depending on cable lengths and positions, you might also need some new cable, connectors, and possibly conduits, etc.

In the end for me, it worked out cheaper to do the install myself, as the quotes from the electricians after rebate ended up costing more than doing it myself. I.e. the labour is more than $500 in my case, and the parts were around $500. (parts list and photo on this posting: 220 outlet installation in garage)

Certainly better to have the higher rate connector -- just depends on what you need, and how much it costs. Unless you really need to charge the car in 5 hours instead of 8 (not assuming "empty"), and the slightly nicer connector, I don't think you gain much for the expenditure and the related (enviro, time, effort, etc) impacts of going to an HPWC.

Wow $0.02 per kWh -- not sure how you get that price, shows $0.065 on their site for off-peak. Your electricity is practically free at that price.

If you had nothing -- definitely put in an HPWC, but you more or less already have what you need, so "why pay more"...("buy ABC" -- am I showing my age...).

 

[ZooSean]

Note that you won't be able to claim $1000 for the charger rebate (even if it exists) as there is a maximum of 50% of the value of the charger up to $500, and the HPWC doesn't cost $1000, so you will only get around $374 in rebates for the charger itself. You can get up to $500 again for the installation/inspection costs up to a maximum of 50% of those costs, so depending on your installation costs, you may or may not get the amount.

Actually, unless you have a disconnect close to the "appliance" (the charger), you cannot "legally" go above a 50A breaker. Electrical code requires that "appliances" above 50A have a disconnect in close proximity to the appliance. So, if you don't have that, it would be required. Cost isn't much, but depending on cable lengths and positions, you might also need some new cable, connectors, and possibly conduits, etc.

In the end for me, it worked out cheaper to do the install myself, as the quotes from the electricians after rebate ended up costing more than doing it myself. I.e. the labour is more than $500 in my case, and the parts were around $500. (parts list and photo on this posting: 220 outlet installation in garage)

Certainly better to have the higher rate connector -- just depends on what you need, and how much it costs. Unless you really need to charge the car in 5 hours instead of 8 (not assuming "empty"), and the slightly nicer connector, I don't think you gain much for the expenditure and the related (enviro, time, effort, etc) impacts of going to an HPWC.

Wow $0.02 per kWh -- not sure how you get that price, shows $0.065 on their site for off-peak. Your electricity is practically free at that price.

If you had nothing -- definitely put in an HPWC, but you more or less already have what you need, so "why pay more"...("buy ABC" -- am I showing my age...).

Thanks for your advice, one note powerstream in Ontario are now introduce advanced time based price plan, with that from 12 am to 7 am is 0.02 per kw.

 

[hingisfan]

What size wire would I need to do the 48 amp setup (60 amp breaker), with a run of about 50 feet?

 

[rdturner0]

Thanks for your advice, one note powerstream in Ontario are now introduce advanced time based price plan, with that from 12 am to 7 am is 0.02 per kw.

That's a pretty cheap price. Not sure how they can put that out -- it costs more than that to generate the electricity (even with Nuclear, which is the cheapest in general to produce power from -- just has limited flexibility to match demand).

 

[hingisfan]

That's a pretty cheap price. Not sure how they can put that out -- it costs more than that to generate the electricity (even with Nuclear, which is the cheapest in general to produce power from -- just has limited flexibility to match demand).

They would charge more during peak times to offset and encourage off peak use.

 

[rdturner0]

What size wire would I need to do the 48 amp setup (60 amp breaker), with a run of about 50 feet?

In copper (which is required for the HPWC, and is generally recommended), you will need a minimum of 6 AWG conductors for 48A. The maximum 60 degree Celsius rated ampacity for 3 conductor 6 AWG is 55A (according to Table 2 of the 2015 Canadian Electrical Code). All the electricians I talked to were going to install 6 AWG for the circuit I was planning (48A load, 60A breaker).

Typically, one purchases 6/3 NMD for the interior runs (although if you can find it, you only need a 2 conductor cable with ground for the HPWC (as the neutral is not required)). Conductors inside conduit require that the conductors not be inside an outer sheath for thermal reasons (i.e. just the conductor and it's insulation, no outer wrap like normal NMD cables), and as such I believe the code requires T90 conductors for metallic conduit (EMT). It will depend on your requirements for connectivity and physical locations as to how you run the wire. You can buy both type of cable by the meter at Home Depot (or at least you can around me in Ottawa). You could also probably run armoured (BX) cable the whole way, but it's more expensive as far as I know.

Do check the Canadian Electrical Code code for details. (see my post here for some useful links: What is the cheapest Ontario EVIP approved charger?)

 

[rdturner0]

They would charge more during peak times to offset and encourage off peak use.

Pretty sweet deal if you have a large battery to time-shift your power consumption...

 

[ZooSean]

Pretty sweet deal if you have a large battery to time-shift your power consumption...

Yes , I will consider in the future to install power wall.

 

[vidya_sagar]

Note that you won't be able to claim $1000 for the charger rebate (even if it exists) as there is a maximum of 50% of the value of the charger up to $500, and the HPWC doesn't cost $1000, so you will only get around $374 in rebates for the charger itself. You can get up to $500 again for the installation/inspection costs up to a maximum of 50% of those costs, so depending on your installation costs, you may or may not get the amount.

Actually, unless you have a disconnect close to the "appliance" (the charger), you cannot "legally" go above a 50A breaker. Electrical code requires that "appliances" above 50A have a disconnect in close proximity to the appliance. So, if you don't have that, it would be required. Cost isn't much, but depending on cable lengths and positions, you might also need some new cable, connectors, and possibly conduits, etc.

In the end for me, it worked out cheaper to do the install myself, as the quotes from the electricians after rebate ended up costing more than doing it myself. I.e. the labour is more than $500 in my case, and the parts were around $500. (parts list and photo on this posting: 220 outlet installation in garage)

Certainly better to have the higher rate connector -- just depends on what you need, and how much it costs. Unless you really need to charge the car in 5 hours instead of 8 (not assuming "empty"), and the slightly nicer connector, I don't think you gain much for the expenditure and the related (enviro, time, effort, etc) impacts of going to an HPWC.

Wow $0.02 per kWh -- not sure how you get that price, shows $0.065 on their site for off-peak. Your electricity is practically free at that price.

If you had nothing -- definitely put in an HPWC, but you more or less already have what you need, so "why pay more"...("buy ABC" -- am I showing my age...).

Very informative post. Thanks

I am in Ontario and recently ordered HPWC. my panel at basement showing 125 Amps breaker. my house is pretty new (2 year old) and has only electric dryer and central AC. I dont know if I have to upgrade my panel to 200amps for Tesla charging..