Charger rollout-selfishly annoyed

[efusco]

So, I completely understand that California S owners way outnumber us lowly backward Midwesterners, and it's important to keep that group happy since a lot of near term sales will involve that group. But, I can't help but feeling that it is unfair and very frustrating to hear that 4 Superchargers at a location was determined to not be enough (was it Dania?), so they're adding freaking 10 more at one location!? There's not even one projected that will be close enough for me to use for at least a year, and given the failure to meet even the soonest projections probably longer than that.

When I become CEO at Tesla, I'm going to put 2 Superchargers at as many locations as fast as possible to first create the network and make it as large as possible. Then I'll look at usage and start adding chargers at high use stations.

[end venting]

 

[stopcrazypp]

Then I'll look at usage and start adding chargers at high use stations.

To be fair, it's probably less expensive to install many chargers all at once rather than adding them later (at the very least it saves one permit application and other overhead fees). Plus, the difference in cost between adding 10 superchargers in 1 location vs 2 superchargers in 5 locations is probably significant.

They want to probably wait later for less popular markets to see how owners are spread out in those areas before installing a station.

 

[K Hall]

It is not a cost constraint but a resource and prioritization model. I am with Evan that we are living in a barren wasteland of EV infrastructure and support.

 

[rdrcrmatt]

Best thing us MidWesterners can do for now is be willing to share our outlets on sites like PlugShare and CarStations.

I just put my 14-50 on there.. I hope someone needs it / uses it with this being the busy time of the year for festivals in our area. (WI State Fair coming up, i'm a few blocks away)

 

[PhilBa]

I'd bet the cost difference between putting in two SCs and 10 is fairly small. Planning, permitting, project mgt, site prep, installation, and all the other things that have be done will change little between 2 vs 10.

 

[deonb]

So, I completely understand that California S owners way outnumber us lowly backward Midwesterners, and it's important to keep that group happy since a lot of near term sales will involve that group. But, I can't help but feeling that it is unfair and very frustrating to hear that 4 Superchargers at a location was determined to not be enough (was it Dania?), so they're adding freaking 10 more at one location!? There's not even one projected that will be close enough for me to use for at least a year, and given the failure to meet even the soonest projections probably longer than that.

When I become CEO at Tesla, I'm going to put 2 Superchargers at as many locations as fast as possible to first create the network and make it as large as possible. Then I'll look at usage and start adding chargers at high use stations.

[end venting]

Keep in mind the SuperCharger rollout is also an experiment - nobody has done that before. So the models told them 4 was enough - and it clearly wasn't. Now their models tell them 14 is needed. But will THAT be enough?

It's important for Tesla to learn from their mistake and correct the model and validate it so that they have something that works and can be repeated at other locations before they go and roll out 200 incorrectly sized superchargers. That will be MUCH more costly to fix.

 

[metafor]

One shouldn't rely on Superchargers to be the primary charging source; they're meant to facilitate road trips. I agree with rdrcrmatt that the community is really the solution here. That being said, how easy/costly is it to install a 70A SAE charger outside one's house? NEMA 14-50's are nice but nowhere near as fast as a 240/70A charge. I don't own a home but do have family that I visit with houses sprawled out. I'd be happy to send them an SAE kit and have them install it outside their driveway for EV owners to use. But not if it's ~5k per station....

 

[kendallpb]

So, I completely understand that California S owners way outnumber us lowly backward Midwesterners, and it's important to keep that group happy since a lot of near term sales will involve that group. But, I can't help but feeling that it is unfair and very frustrating to hear that 4 Superchargers at a location was determined to not be enough (was it Dania?), so they're adding freaking 10 more at one location!? There's not even one projected that will be close enough for me to use for at least a year, and given the failure to meet even the soonest projections probably longer than that.

When I become CEO at Tesla, I'm going to put 2 Superchargers at as many locations as fast as possible to first create the network and make it as large as possible. Then I'll look at usage and start adding chargers at high use stations.

[end venting]

I'm sure you've already seem the map/slider, but it looks like Missouri isn't slated to get them till 2014, according to Tesla's Supercharger map, when it looks like they're adding a bunch in your state as part of a Colorado-to-West-Virginia run. I doubt that adding bays to existing California locations is why those midwest Superchargers are coming late in the game.

Also, remember that originally the Supercharger build-out was planned over a much longer period (was it five years?). If they keep to this new schedule, then the whole map will get covered a lot sooner than originally planned.

 

[dsm363]

They need to address current Supercharger locations (ones they grossly underestimated usage) before they roll out new ones. Angry owners waiting in line for hours looks much worse than an empty parking lot in a state that has no Superchargers.
They need to roll them out in other states as quickly as possible though and I'd imagine that is their goal. Imagine how Roadster owners felt for the last 5 years by not even having access to 70A charging while traveling.
They don't even have a Supercharger in Texas yet and there are a lot of Model Ss here. The Midwest actually beat Texas to the punch with one in Normal, IL so hasn't been completely ignored. This will be a multi-year rollout so will require a lot of patience which will be difficult. Most of us love our cars and want to drive it everywhere so the rollout is highly desired and critical in this regard.

 

[Luder94]

I just got my HPWC installed this weekend. I'm up in northern IL.... it's up for 'share' to other Tesla owners that are caught without necessary juice. I'd rather not put it up on a public site outside of the TMC though.

Best thing us MidWesterners can do for now is be willing to share our outlets on sites like PlugShare and CarStations.

I just put my 14-50 on there.. I hope someone needs it / uses it with this being the busy time of the year for festivals in our area. (WI State Fair coming up, i'm a few blocks away)

 

[islandbayy]

I have my 14-50 available on plug share as well in Milwaukee County, as well as I have recommendations for a number of free level 2 chargers across from hotels and motels when people call me to inquire about the outlet, as well as I got one in Wisconsin Dells, The largest tourest location in the Midwest. The Sandrift now has the only publicly available charging location within almost 80 miles. Their is a nissan dealership, I gave it a test on a Sunday a week or so ago, and was lucky to get 190v at 30 amps, gave me around 14 miles per hour, and their is noting within reasonable walking distance in terms of restaurant or hotel.

We REALLY Need the Milwaukee and Madison Superchargers up and running ASAP. Even though sales arn't very high in Wisconsin, The TOURISM from Illinois to Wisconsin is INSANE. We had 3xMS's at the Sandrift Saturday and sunday, and only 1 NEMA 14-50 to go around. I had just finished charging as a Red MS85 came in, range charge needed to get him home took 10 hrs, and then a Black MS85 came in on Sunday Literally 1 hr after the Red finished, he needed a range charge to get him back to Chicago, that was another 8ish hours.

 

[100thMonkey]

I would highly recommend that folks put in clipper creak CS 90's or 100's for sharing with plugshare, that way the entire EV community can benefit... and don't worry, you won't be mobbed with Leaf owners, it's just not an issue. clipper creeks seem to be bullet proof and designed for outdoor use, super simple and best of all, they work. the main thing that plugshare does is reduce range anxiety by giving folks a security blanket... the vast majority of travel is close to home, even in the S.

not that it will make anyone feel any better, but don't expect super chargers to meet all your needs even when they are finally in your area, Tesla just simply is not planning to add enough locations to eliminate the need for plugsharing. finding a decent place to charge on anything but 110V at one's destination is the big challenge when traveling out of town. we just rolled over 10K miles on the S in 4 months, traveling all over the place with the family and it turns out that destination charging is the big challenge even in areas where there are Super Chargers because either Tesla isn't putting them in metro areas or my destination has been more remote than SC will ever be.

 

[jerry33]

I'd be more than happy if any owners in Oklahoma and Kansas put in HPWCs or Clipper Creeks. Right now PlugShare shows a grand total of two 30 amp chargers. Yes, there are RV parks but I'd rather charge faster than 28 mph (the best I've seen at an RV park).

 

[Todd Burch]

Related observation:

I believe Tesla's predictive models for Supercharger use had a fundamental flaw. Tesla probably based them on typical road trip frequency. I suspect that what they failed to predict is that Supercharging (ie free fuel) is spurring road trips. In other words, people are driving more and taking more road trips simply because their fuel is free. In an odd way, the Model S is almost harmful to the environment in that way (although admittedly the environmental benefits far outweigh this negative).

 

[gg_got_a_tesla]

Tesla probably based them on typical road trip frequency. I suspect that what they failed to predict is that Supercharging (ie free fuel) is spurring road trips. In other words, people are driving more and taking more road trips simply because their fuel is free.

This. I've never been a roadtripper, preferring to fly even down to LA (incidentally definitely less green than driving an EV) but, can't wait to get down 101 later this summer in my S.

Btw, an excerpt from Plug In America's newsletter today (about the Roadster battery degradation):

It is premature to glean much about battery capacity for the Model S, which became available in mid-2012, but this research has already shown that survey participants are driving an average of more than 16,000 miles per year, well above the national average of 13,500 miles for conventional vehicles, Saxton reported.

 

[SFOTurtle]

Which SC is going to add 10 more bays? If Gilroy, that makes perfect sense. There is frequently a wait for at least one if not two or more MS during peak times and weekends, and this will only get worse with more and more people taking delivery of their MS and using Gilroy as their first experimental charge. People do in fact drive 40 or more miles down to Gilroy just to try out the chargers and one woman I saw there over Memorial Day weekend drove about 20 miles down there (starting from a near full charge) and left her car there to charge for an indefinite period to go shopping (and saving herself maybe $1 on electricity charges).

 

[rdrcrmatt]

I just got my HPWC installed this weekend. I'm up in northern IL.... it's up for 'share' to other Tesla owners that are caught without necessary juice. I'd rather not put it up on a public site outside of the TMC though.

I just didn't put my exact address on the "share".. I put my google voice number on there and said call / text for address.

I'm going to add my HPWC when I get it all hooked up. Should be in a week or two.