Charging Anxiety Log

[mitch672]

Well said Evan, I agree. I am getting both, not because I need them, it's more of "in case" insurance, and to have the capability, not that it will be used very often (the dual charger)

It's a small percentage of the additional $92.5k additional I need to come up with (not counting the $5K deposit, which brings it to $97.5K total, including personal delivery and MA sales tax)

 

[FlasherZ]

Here is my need for the high-speed charging at home... Frequently I will be on business trips - I live 65 miles from the St. Louis airport, where there are no charging stations (yet) to plug in while I am gone. There are 5-6 times a year that I will fly back home on a Friday, then take the family and head to my in-laws' home 140 miles away the same night (leaving within 2 hours of getting home), most of it at Interstate speed.

I could try to cut it close with only an hour or two of charging at 40A, but that would leave me very little wiggle room, and might require a lower speed drive. This doesn't include the effects of climate control, or battery degradation. I'd feel confident with 2 hours of 40A charging in perfect weather with a brand new battery, but anything that's not perfect and I'm going to be close. I don't live in California and so hot summers and cold winters affect me.

...and the idea of having to wait for someone in the middle of nowhere, IL, to come by and give me an hour of 40A charging so I can get there with 4 young boys in the car? Unpleasant at best.

 

[NigelM]

A 70 amp J1772 in the wild is really rare - I would imagine that it would be even rarer on the East Coast where you don't have as many J1772 chargers to start off with.

I'm thinking that charing anxiety is more for those who don't live on the west coast.

What is it with you all out West? There are plenty of chargers over here and increasing all the time. Sweeping generalizations about charging anxiety on the East Coast is not exactly helpful to those of us trying to teach skeptics about range management and charging.

 

[bonnie]

What is it with you all out West? There are plenty of chargers over here and increasing all the time. Sweeping generalizations about charging anxiety on the East Coast is not exactly helpful to those of us trying to teach skeptics about range management and charging.

Settle down there, Florida guy. -pats head- I'm sure you have plenty of nice charging stations.

 

[NigelM]

Settle down there, Florida guy. -pats head- I'm sure you have plenty of nice charging stations.

Thanks Mom :crying:....can I have some cookies now?

 

[bonnie]

Shush, you.

 

[smorgasbord]

Where in the US can you charge at more than 10Kw/Hour?

If you live/travel in CA: Salinas, Atascadero, San Luis Obispo, Santa Maria, Goleta, Barstow, Coalinga, Orland, Yreka, Davis, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Fremont, and every Tesla Store, which adds: San Jose, Newport Beach, Santa Monica

For the rest of the country: Miami Beach (not just yet), Lone Tree, Seattle, White Plains, Portland, Oak Brook, Houston, Bellevue, Dania Beach, New York, Chicago, Wash DC, and Scottsdale. I think Boston is getting a store, too.

Unless I've missed an installation or two, that's the complete list of where your second charger can be utilized. The only likely public additions will be new Tesla stores. Everything else is sub-50 amp or quick charging, with no indications of that changing any time in the next few years at least. If you won't be traveling through those cities, you won't be using your second charger.

As for the cost of an HPC at home, don't forget to count the added installation charges for larger breakers and thicker wires, not to mention possible main panel upgrades.


Now, if you live along a common road trip route and want to host fellow Tesla owners stopping by, well that's the best reason I've yet heard. Whoever does that first should start a sticky thread for people to post their available HPCs and location, assuming they're not just going to list it in the public databases.

The rest of you should stop being fearful and stop rationalizing. Roadster owners, please add your experiences to this thread.

 

[DavidM]

I agree with Doug_G:
"70A is wonderul to have on the road. It is totally unnecessary at home."

Frankly, I cannot imagine a day when I will drive for 250 miles, return home, charge quickly, and then drive for another 250 miles.
While I would welcome 70A on the road, I'm not sure I would ever need it any time soon.
Usually if I drive 250 miles in a day, I wind up spending the night in a hotel. Then I would get to recharge overnight. 30A or 50A would be just fine.

On longer trips, I would just take our ICE car. Not sure my family would have much patience if something didn't work out just perfectly with my plans for recharging enroute.

I kind of view a 70A home charger as a convenience item for visitors with Tesla EVs. At this point, having both a 50A circuit and a 30A circuit (for charging) would be much more valuable than a single 70A home charger.

 

[KBF]

Very true. I'm currently only aware of one within driving range of where I live, and I was responsible for getting it installed!

Doug, I thought Sun Country was planning to put in J1772's along the Trans-Canada. Are they going to be 70 amp or just 30? I had hoped that the twin chargers wouldn't be a complete waste in my Signature...

 

[NigelM]

First, I strongly believe that I'll hardly ever need fast charging, but it's nice to know that I could utilize it if I need to.

BTW, *smorgasbord* missed a bunch of new Tesla stores coming and there are plenty of threads, so I'm not going to start listing them here. There's all a sprinkling of Tesla 70amp HPC's around the country which can usually be found with a quick search; example : http://www.recargo.com/sites/6770/

Then there's this goe3-unveil-nations-first-coast-to-coast-EV-charging-network? I have a hard time to cut and paste on my iPad but you can read in the article about the 70amp chargers.

P.S. in 16 months of Roadster ownership I've never used a 70amp charger, not even once.

 

[Doug_G]

A big problem with the existing EV infrastructure, what there is of it, is that it's mostly 30A. Which actually means 24A. That's a 10 hour charge for a Roadster! For an 85 kWh Model S a full charge would be something like 16 hours. A 50A circuit cuts that almost in half, because you can draw 40A instead of 24A.

That's why I suggest the 50A circuit for home use. It will charge any Tesla overnight. It's pretty rare that you need to charge faster than that at home.

All that said, unless you frequently make long trips one day after another, a 30A circuit will probably do the job. But unless you have no choice because your panel is topped out, there's no point in installing a 30A circuit. The cost difference between 50A and 30A is negligible.

 

[KBF]

Doug, I thought Sun Country was planning to put in J1772's along the Trans-Canada. Are they going to be 70 amp or just 30? I had hoped that the twin chargers wouldn't be a complete waste in my Signature...

Never mind, I did a quick search through my emails and found the answer. For Canadians, it may be worth getting the dual chargers because Sun Country is putting up 40-90 amp chargers along the Trans-Canada (and I think other major highways as well) . I will be making use of them on regular road trips both East and West. I won't get the HPC for at home; no fellow Teslan will want to visit me off the beaten path (well, now it's only 1/2 mile of gravel roads; use your paint Armor!) :wink:

 

[efusco]

Where in the US can you charge at more than 10Kw/Hour?

If you live/travel in CA: Salinas, Atascadero, San Luis Obispo, Santa Maria, Goleta, Barstow, Coalinga, Orland, Yreka, Davis, Palo Alto, Menlo Park, Fremont, and every Tesla Store, which adds: San Jose, Newport Beach, Santa Monica

For the rest of the country: Miami Beach (not just yet), Lone Tree, Seattle, White Plains, Portland, Oak Brook, Houston, Bellevue, Dania Beach, New York, Chicago, Wash DC, and Scottsdale. I think Boston is getting a store, too.

Unless I've missed an installation or two, that's the complete list of where your second charger can be utilized. The only likely public additions will be new Tesla stores. Everything else is sub-50 amp or quick charging, with no indications of that changing any time in the next few years at least. If you won't be traveling through those cities, you won't be using your second charger.

As for the cost of an HPC at home, don't forget to count the added installation charges for larger breakers and thicker wires, not to mention possible main panel upgrades.


Now, if you live along a common road trip route and want to host fellow Tesla owners stopping by, well that's the best reason I've yet heard. Whoever does that first should start a sticky thread for people to post their available HPCs and location, assuming they're not just going to list it in the public databases.

The rest of you should stop being fearful and stop rationalizing. Roadster owners, please add your experiences to this thread.

Well, if more Model S buyers install 100amp chargers in their homes and are willing to share, that will add to your list.
Also, you're looking at a tiny snapshot right now. I'll have this car for minimum of 7 years, and more likely at least 10. I anticipate dramatic expansion of charging stations around the nation, even in BFE where I live and certainly want to be set to take full advantage. It's just planning ahead.

 

[SCW-Greg]

Many of us are thinking about an $80k, $90k or even a $100k car. What the heck, this is one helluva car. Why skimp? Mitch is right.

Further, if we all believe these cars will succeed (and I'm sure most all of us do), and that other brands are soon on the horizon - you know higher amp 3rd party chargers will follow quickly.

When you fill up at a gasoline station, you don't fill halfway, you fill it up (granted its only a minute or two different, vs hours). Isn't that the Boy Scout/military thing to do... be prepared? Have insurance. Why with EV, if you have the time, would you not get the fullest charge as quick as possible?

I have a 200 amp box in my garage, so I plan on adding the HPWC mostly for the aesthetics, convenience, and the one time a year I may need to charge above 40amps.

For me, why be stingy with the thing that *may* be truly important, vs. say a luxury like a pano roof, or premium sound, etc.

 

[Doug_G]

Doug, I thought Sun Country was planning to put in J1772's along the Trans-Canada. Are they going to be 70 amp or just 30? I had hoped that the twin chargers wouldn't be a complete waste in my Signature...

Yes, they're installing mostly 70A. The Trans-Canada network is coming together very nicely. I just heard that there will be additional 70A chargers available within range of my location very soon. And near you, too.

 

[smorgasbord]

I anticipate dramatic expansion of charging stations around the nation, even in BFE where I live and certainly want to be set to take full advantage. It's just planning ahead.

With Tesla's SuperCharging announcement coming, the air just went out of any high-power AC charging network coming, press releases and previous announcements notwithstanding. It's going to be SuperChargers for Teslas and 30 amp J1772s for everything else.

NigelM, GoE3 has just 1 charger installed, in Tucson at Biosphere2. Carstations reports it as free even though the article you referenced says the charge will be $12.50 per charge. Their website is pathetic, btw. But, add Tucson to the short list of more than 50-amp chargers. And, new Tesla stores, too. Note that once stores can do Model S test drives, you'll have to ask the store manager to let you charge (which they'll probably do). If you're expecting to be there after hours, you'll want to call ahead of time and make arrangements.

 

[mitch672]

Thanks Greg. One other point I didn't mention: I will be ICE free after getting my 85KW Model S, so I'm not going to have the option of "taking the gasser", unless I rent one. Just another reason to have the 20KW charging capability, consider if the Model S was your only car.. The HPWC is more for convenience, It can be wired with less than 100A breakers. If you have 60-100A capability, you should have it installed with the largest size amperage your infrastructure can support.. I had a dedicated 125A subpanel installed in the garage, off my main 200A service, not an issue for me.

 

[smorgasbord]

... other brands are soon on the horizon - you know higher amp 3rd party chargers will follow quickly.

Show me one non-Tesla non-exotic EV "on the horizon" that can charge at higher than 10kW/hour.

I don't believe there is going to be a high amperage AC charging network in the US.

 

[SCW-Greg]

Thanks Greg. One other point I didn't mention: I will be ICE free after getting my 85KW Model S, so I'm not going to have the option of "taking the gasser", unless I rent one. Just another reason to have the 20KW charging capability, consider if the Model S was your only car.. The HPWC is more for convenience, It can be wired with less than 100A breakers. If you have 60-100A capability, you should have it installed with the largest size amperage your infrastructure can support.. I had a dedicated 125A subpanel installed in the garage, off my main 200A service, not an issue for me.

Yeah I like the subpanel idea... Although I'd rather fly under the radar for now, as I'm hearing some electric companies are beginning to charge (higher) even special rates for EVs - and suggesting subpanels for tracking. Our tiered rates here don't make sense, if you use 'current' during the day at home (you get raked over the coals), so staying on the flat rate. I figure the longer we can not alert the power company to our use, the better. I see rates going up in the future as adoption grows.

 

[strider]

I'm thinking that charing anxiety is more for those who don't live on the west coast.

CA maybe, but smorgs point is even more relevant outside the west coast. Here we have a lot (comparatively) of 70A chargers. Everywhere else the J1772's are 32A. I have a 60 mile commute, but wife's is 25. Both my Roadster and her Model S will charge on 24A. I agree w/ smorg that if you're headed inter-city there will be superchargers en route. If you're charging at your destination 10kW will be fine in nearly all cases.

But to answer smorg's question, in 22 months and 21 k miles I have used a 70A HPC just once when I had a competition in Lincoln, CA - 140 miles away from home so outside my round trip distance. The charger was not near my destination so I had to wait for it to charge on my way home. The speed was nice but w/ Model S's larger range wouldn't have been necessary.

But at the end of the day, if it makes you feel more comfortable to have an HPC and twin chargers then you should do it. Being anxious is no way to live.