Charging at Campgrounds and RV Parks

[TEG]

OK, thanks for the clarification, Sam.

Further proof that campgrounds are inconsistent. I imagine someone could read their services listing and see "30 amp service", then show up with a TT-30 plug and go "oh no". Well, with UMC and enough adapters your Roadster charging is covered either way.

 

[ChargeIt!]

Oops ... sorry Sam. Might be worth it to update the listing to avoid others' future confusion ... :redface:

 

[kgb]

Not related to current discussion, but appropriate for thread:
Thought I'd share my experience. Was driving to Austin from Houston. Was using A/C, and was afraid I might fall short of my destination. So I called up South Forty RV Park in Giddings, TX. The call when like this:

Me: Hi, do you have 50 amp service
Them: Yes we do.
Me: I'm sure you don't get asked this much, but how much for 1 or 2 hours. (I explain the electric car)
Them: You're right, we've never been asked that before. But I guess we could check the meter and collect $0.11/kw-h.
Me: Thanks.
Them: Just call me with the meter reading when you are done and I'll tell you how much to put in the honor box.
(Seriously, an honor box. No cashier, just a box you put money into)
When I was done, I used around 20 kw-h. I left $5 in the honor box.

 

[Slackjaw]

Trip was roughly New Jersey to Maine. We had a very annoying experience trying to use a PIN-locked Clipper Creek charger on Sunday night, about half-way (Hadley, MA) -- here's a post -- but a great experience on Monday at Pine Acres. They have a dedicated EV point just before the camp security gate, to the left of the access road. Obligatory photos:

From other posts on this thread I think that left hand socket is a TT-30, which is not adaptable using a TM adapter, but the 50A is your common-or-garden NEMA 14-50 and the car charged fine. The camp ground charged us $10 flat rate; we were charging for 4 hrs so it was absolutely reasonable. There are plenty of things to do at the camp and since we had a ICEV in convoy we were able to go for lunch off-site. The staff at the campground were really great and were interested in the car. We were also the first people to use the site to charge a car, although they use electric golf carts to get around and can charge them from any of the RV posts and/or this EV charge station.

All in it would have been better not to need the RV backup solution, and we were delayed at least 6 hours overall, but it could have been worse, and this camp ground was beautiful and very welcoming, with great facilities and staff. Highly recommended if you need a place to stop in this area.

 

[TEG]

Thanks for the pix!

From other posts on this thread I think that left hand socket is a TT-30, which is not adaptable using a TM adapter...

You can get a simple TT30 to NEMA5-15 adapter, and could charge from 120V, but there really is no point if you have the NEMA14-50 high current 240V socket available.

 

[bonnie]

Welcome home, Ian. And congrats on successfully navigating a sub-par infrastructure! You'll tell your grandkids about this someday & they'll be stunned. "Whaaat??? You had to stop and charge? For HOW long??"

 

[tomsax]

You can get a simple TT30 to NEMA5-15 adapter, and could charger from 120V, but there really is no point if you have the NEMA14-50 high current 240V socket available.

RichKae came up with the idea of making a TT-30 to NEMA 10-30 (or NEMA 14-30) adapter, then run through the pigtail on the RFMC to get 120V/24A charging. I don't know if anyone has tried it, but the same trick may work on the UMC.

 

[Slackjaw]

Welcome home, Ian. And congrats on successfully navigating a sub-par infrastructure!

Not quite home - only home to TeslaMotorsClub! We're still in Maine and the car is slumming it in a 70-year old garage, covered in pine needles etc!

We're driving halfway home on Friday and have paid $38 to reserve an RV spot for the Roadster while we use the Honda CR-V (we're travelling in convoy) to drive to a nearby hotel to sleep. The campground - not the one above - has nothing pet-friendly they can rent to us, at least not if we want any bedding. I'm not totally comfortable about leaving the car there overnight but we don't want to actively wait 5 hrs for the 160 miles we need. It will be locked and PIN secured, and I will probably lock the UMC to the wheel using the padlock and cable I bought for the [so far, useless] J1772 adapter.

You'll tell your grandkids about this someday & they'll be stunned. "Whaaat??? You had to stop and charge? For HOW long??"

We were delayed about 8 hours. It really thought I'd done my groundwork and it was embarrassing to explain to all my wife's relatives why were so late, so it was already a case of the in-laws asking "You had to what??? And it took how long???". Luckily these guys are only moderate EV-skeptics and may even have been converted after a few rides.

I wish I'd had more endurance on Sunday night after the Marriott EV charger fiasco; if we'd know about this place in advance then we would have taken the car over there as soon as the Clipper Creek thing fell through; it was only about 45 mins drive away. As it is we had to wait till Monday morning, then call all the local RV parks to find one with a spot, so we didn't start charging until 10:30 am. One web site I wish I'd found sooner was http://www.rvparksinamerica.com/; it lists most of the places by proximity and was really what we needed. It's probably already somewhere in this thread. Probably posted by TEG.

Lessons learned:

• Plan A and Plan B are not enough. Have a Plan C through Z in mind. Sort by distance and have a list of numbers to call.
• RV park people are not early morning people; knowledgeable managers generally aren't available before 9 am.

In this case our Plan B was sound (i.e., charge at a local RV park) but the Columbus Day weekend meant that all the places I'd written down were full and couldn't give us a 50A line until someone checked out on Monday! They started to get annoyed at me. "Are you the guy we told to call back after 9 am? Are you?". ... then an implied "No electricity for you!"

 

[TEG]

RichKae came up with the idea of making a TT-30 to NEMA 10-30 (or NEMA 14-30) adapter, then run through the pigtail on the RFMC to get 120V/24A charging. I don't know if anyone has tried it, but the same trick may work on the UMC.

Yeah - I proposed that a long while back too... But I was unsure if you could coax the Roadster to take the full 30A from 120V. I recall hearing that with a Tattler you could force it to if you wanted.

 

[jaanton]

Scott451 has, I think, charged the Roadster with 120v @ 24A (i.e. what you could safely do with a TT-30). I'll bet you can build a TT-30 UMC adapter. I have the 6-20 UMC adapter and I've fed it 120v and it worked just fine. (A little tricky, the neutral has to be in the right place or you get an error.)

 

[richkae]

Yeah - I proposed that a long while back too... But I was unsure if you could coax the Roadster to take the full 30A from 120V. I recall hearing that with a Tattler you could force it to if you wanted.

I built the adapter and used it to charge at 120v 24amps - same as Scott - no tattler required.

 

[Slackjaw]

...a great experience on Monday at Pine Acres. They have a dedicated EV point just before the camp security gate, to the left of the access road....

The camp ground posted a Roadster pic on their facebook page too.

 

[zack]

I built the adapter and used it to charge at 120v 24amps - same as Scott - no tattler required.

I vaguely remember reading the procedure for this. Can you remind me?

 

[richkae]

I installed a TT-30 socket in my garage - just like any standard 120v outlet - but hooked up to a 30amp breaker with 10 gauge wire.

I purchased a TT-30 plug and a 10-30 socket and one foot of 3-10 wire.
The TT-30 has 3 wires, one hot, one neutral, one ground.
The 10-30 wants 3, two hots, and one ground.
I wired the TT-30 hot to one of the 10-30 hots, I wired the TT-30 neutral to the other 10-30 hot.

I connect the 10-30 pigtail into the charger ( An RFMC ).
I plug my 10-30 pigtail into the 10-30 socket on the connector, and the other end: TT-30 plug into the TT-30 socket.
The charger signals the 24amp pilot signal to the car, and it happily charges at 120volts.

 

[hcsharp]

The camp ground posted a Roadster pic on their facebook page too.

Wow Pine Acres is just one charge south of where I live. Kudos to them for doing this! Too bad it's in the middle of nowhere...

 

[brucedp]

I ask Tesla drivers to respond to my question:

Can the driver adjust the amount of current the EV will draw from a 14-50?

If the driver were plugging into a RV park's 14-50, it would be connected to a 50Amp breaker, so the most the EV should draw is 40Amps.

If the driver were to plug into a 14-50 that was on a 40A breaker, could the EV be set to only draw 32A?


Reason for asking:
I have been volunteered to do some upgrades on a charging set up the eaasv.org uses at their annual EVent at Palo Alto, CA HS.

The EAA member that built this was a EE, and has since past away. I am trying to retrofit it so as to give it more life/use at EVents. He built it in the 1990's when even the GM EV1 was new. So most of the time, only level 1 drawing conversion EVs would plug in. Hence it has gobs of 5-20 (regular 120VAC 20A) outlets. I am going to remove eight of the 5-20 outlets and install two 14-50 outlets connected to a 40A breaker.

Public EVSE is connected to a 40Amp breaker, providing up to 32A (by electrician code).

Please let me know if a Tesla EV uses one of their 14-50 adapter cables, what it Amperage
circuit it requires, and if it can work off a 40A breaker'd circuit or does it require a 50A breaker'd circuit.

Thank you,
-Bruce

 

[TEG]

Yes, Tesla can charge at reduced current off of NEMA14-50. It is configurable in the car to whatever rate you want (basically in 8A steps with some exceptions.)

I charged the LEAFat the PA EAA Rally and it only worked from the "pedestal" on the left (away from the parking lot). The one on the right caused some sort of ground fault and my EVSE kept shutting off.
So, if you are working on that stuff, try to make sure Neutral and grounding are all done right so that GFCI and other safety checks don't kick in.


There were more LEAFs than any other kind of EV at that Rally now, and that trend will likely continue next year.
Many LEAF owners have portable EVSEs modified to charge from L60-20 [email protected]
Providing some L16-20 sockets might neaten up the cabling a bit...

(At the Rally I used a 14-50 to L6-20 adapter...)

 

[VolkerP]

Can the driver adjust the amount of current the EV will draw from a 14-50?

If the driver were to plug into a 14-50 that was on a 40A breaker, could the EV be set to only draw 32A?

Bruce,

the quick answer is yes.

The Roadster can automatically and manually adjust current. I understand that US breaker ratings are in 10A steps (20,30,40,50) and that continuous load should be at 80% max breaker rating.

The Roadster adheres by offering following values for manual selection 16A, 24A, 32A, 40A. Minimum is 12A and it goes up to 70A.
Most Roadster enjoy the convenience of automatic selection, provided by extra circuitry in the adapter cables.
For example, the NEMA 14-50 adapter cable signals 40A max to the car charger, and the NEMA 10-30 signals 24A.
There is no adapter for a 40A line that signals 32A, though. Every Roadster owner would have to set 32A by hand.

I am fairly sure your efforts will be greatly appreciated by any visitors. They will happily charge at 32A. Chances are, someone will blow the 40A breaker by charging right away with the automatic value of 40amps. To get on the safe side, the two NEMA 14-50 outlets should have 50A breakers, or you should put up BIG signs saying 32A max charge current.

 

[TEG]

Yes, agreeing with what VolkerP said...

 

[brucedp]

Thank you all for your answers. So, I can use a 40A breaker on the two 14-50 outlets I will be adding. I will be clearly labeling each outlet as to what power they offer. The large panel has a 125A service disconnect breaker (the panel's main breaker).

If for example, I had all four of the 14-50 outlets I am planning for, being used by: two Tesla's and two Leaf EVs, all should be OK as the Leaf EV only has a half-powered (3kW) on-board charger. It would be like using the same power as if I there were only three Tesla's drawing 6kW each (well within the spec of the 125A panel with all other breakers off).

Because there was so many post-2010 Production EVs at the eaasv.org EVent is why I am making the effort to make the large panel more usable. It was originally built for the needs of the late 1990's. Clearly there are far fewer level1 needs than level2, and they will be for 6kW level2 power.

That was made quite clear, as you said, as there were many Tesla Roadsters at the EVent. First thing in the morning I saw them in come in one right after the other. Wow, that was about $1M worth of EVs right there! Each of the public I talked to that day I made sure they knew that the Tesla drivers were very generous in coming and letting the public put their dirty feet in their sweet ride. My thanks to you all.

I was aware at the end of the EVent that the large panel did have a grounding issue. A Leaf EV that was using one of their modified level1+ rev2 EVSE (a level 1 EVSE changed to provide either level1 or a 3kW level2), also had a fault as well. The Chapter's electrician said the panel was not hooked up right (he did the work so he would know). I am hoping that with due diligence to remind the electrician of this will ensure a proper hookup of the HS' 208VAC power, thus we will not have that issue again.

The chapter has two panels, a large 125A panel (the one I am working one), and small panel. It was that smaller panel that TEG used to get a charge. Some history: both of those panels had charged the original first run older-Production EVs in the late 1990's (EV1, RAV4-EV, Honda+, Think, etc.) when that Chapter's EVent was held at Stanford University.

By my adding of two more 14-50 outlets to the large panel, will let it have a longer use/life.

Thanks again,
-Bruce