TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Charging beyond 90% and long term effects...

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by jlucero, May 4, 2016.

  1. jlucero

    jlucero Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    DALLAS
    im in a predicament where im in between houses and living in a corporate furnished apartment for 2-3 months. i sold my house in texas and will remain for 2-3 months and then move to CA. that being said, charging is very challenging. there are no 14-50 or 110V to charge. every mile is valuable as it is difficult for me to charge when i want. i charge about two times a week but its a bit inconvenient.

    that being said, i now am charging the vehicle closer to 90-100% to get the most mileage i can. as expected, i get the message relating to charging the battery to full consistently can lower battery life. what should i do? is this a big deal if i do it only for 2-3 months until i get to my new house and can lower to 80% charge? or do i need to heed the warnings and lower to 80-90% if i want to continue having a good battery in the next few years?
     
  2. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,895
    Location:
    florida.
    if you keep it below 90% you'll be ok. charging to 100% isn't a problem unless you let the car sit at 100% for extended periods of time. when you do charge to 100% just do it when you are ready to do some driving so the car isn't at 100% for any long amount of time. try looking at plugshare, there are many chargers around dallas that you can utilize.
     
  3. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,125
    That's not strictly true. People generally don't need to obsess about occasional "100%" range charges when needed on road trips but it does have a somewhat more detrimental effect on the battery.

    When you charge or discharge to extreme high or low levels you are jamming all of those lithium ions into one side of the two electrodes (cathode or anode). There are physical effects from stuffing every available lithium ion into an electrode (and from removing every available lithium ion from the other electrode). Leaving it stuffed (or empty) for long periods of time (especially at high temperatures) causes more damage but even charging or discharging to extremes for brief periods of time is more damaging then charging to 90 and discharging to 10 or charging to 80 and discharging at 20.

    Think about the battery cycling testsin the laboratory. These are done by repeatedly charging and discharging the cells with no pause time in between. Yet, 0-100% cycling degrades the cells faster than 20-80 cycling.

    Bottom line, there is an effect so it's best to avoid full charges when you don't really need them. If you actually need a full charge then go ahead and do it occasionally.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Like x 2
    • Dislike x 1
  4. kort677

    kort677 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2015
    Messages:
    1,895
    Location:
    florida.
    1. that is just a more verbose way of saying what I said
    2. which tesla do you own?
     
    • Dislike x 3
    • Like x 1
  5. jf2go

    jf2go Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2016
    Messages:
    83
    Location:
    Laguna Niguel, CA
    Based on the usage pattern the OP suggested, is it better to charge to ~90% and drive a few days down to say 30-40% and charge again to 90% - or try and keep it "topped off" at 90% daily even if only driving a few miles?
     
  6. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2011
    Messages:
    1,125
    I think we are presenting a similar overall message but one that is not exactly the same. I said charging to 100% is itself more detrimental to the battery than charging to 80 or 90 percent. You seemed to say that 100% was only detrimental if left that way for an extended period of time.

    Why is that relevant? The property at issue is common to the lithium ion cells used in all of today's major plugin electric cars from multiple makers.
     
    • Like x 4
    • Informative x 1
  7. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,773
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    There are CHAdeMO stations all over the Dallas area. I suggest you stop at one of those for a half hour a few times/week and charge up to 90%.
     
    • Like x 3
    • Helpful x 1
  8. jlucero

    jlucero Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    DALLAS
    i have a 70D about 6 months old. its difficult for me to charge everyday...there is a location i CAN charge when needed, but highly inconvenient due to my wife needing to go with me to drop the car off since its too far to walk back to the apartment. my total "tank" at 100% is 230 miles i believe...im often charging to 212-219 (when i get that message popped up telling me not to max out), and i often have around 30-60 miles left when i return to charge car back up.

    what will i find happen if i continue this? that my "full" charge will dwindle from the 219? and the max may be 210, and then 200 later on?
     
  9. Polly Wog

    Polly Wog Member

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2013
    Messages:
    220
    Location:
    Kihei, Hawaii
    @jlucero, For the first 6 months I had my Model S, I normally charged to 98%. I've since dialed it back to 90%. After 2 plus years and 27K+ miles, I've lost 1 rated mile (264 instead of 265 on my classic 85). So, I personally wouldn't worry too much about battery degradation for your situation.
     
  10. jlucero

    jlucero Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    DALLAS
    is there a good guide to learning about all the different kinds of public chargers listed on Plugshare? im so ignorant towards these, since all ive had was a home charger 14-50, that gave me about 22 miles per hour of charge.

    specifically, what are these?
    1. CHAdeMO, how fast is this and does it cost money?
    2. Evgo, how fast and does it cost money?
    3. Blink? ditto
    4. what are high powered stations vs public stations on plugshare?
    5. what is level 1, 2, 3

    sorry for all the questions..if there is a good guide, ill read on my own.
     
  11. dgpcolorado

    dgpcolorado Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2015
    Messages:
    699
    Location:
    The Western Slope, Colorado
    Chademo is DCFC (DC Fast Charging), somewhat like Superchargers, except not quite that fast. It takes an adapter to use with a Tesla and that adapter costs $450:
    Tesla — CHAdeMO Adapter
    Many, but not all, Chademo stations charge money for use. If you look at the comments for a site on Plugshare you can usually determine whether or not it costs money to use. One disadvantage of Chademo stations is that there is usually only one per location so they might be in use or broken when you arrive. Be aware of this.

    EVgo and Blink are charge station companies. I think they often charge for use but have no experience with them. I do have experience with ChargePoint. Their stations are sometimes free, you can determine this with their website/app. Their card is free but if you use a pay station they will charge your credit card $25 and you then gradually use up that balance as you charge at pay stations. At the very least, it is useful to set up a ChargePoint account and get the free access card. There are a huge number of ChargePoint stations in the Dallas area.
    EVSE | Electric Vehicle (EV) Charging Stations - ChargePoint
    ChargePoint
    The nice thing about them is that you can select for free stations only and their map/app shows which stations are in use and which are available. Whether any of them are conveniently located for you, I couldn't say.

    High Powered stations on Plugshare are DCFC, such as Tesla Superchargers, Chademo, and SAE Combo DCFC stations. Again, you need an adapter to use Chademo and there is no adapter for SAE Combo stations (yet). Not all Chademo stations are necessarily available for Tesla use; depends on the owner of the station. Clicking on the Plugshare symbol for a station will give you details and user reports about it, which is very helpful.

    Level 1 charging is a standard household AC outlet: 120 V, 12 A. It is very slow, perhaps 3 miles of range per hour
    Level 2 charging is usually AC 208V/240V and 30 Amps or more. While slow compared to DCFC charging it is much faster than Level 1 charging. You can typically get 19 miles per hour at a 208 V station, and more than that at 240 V stations. Tesla HPWC (High Power Wall Connector) stations are even faster.
    Level 3 is not currently in use for AC charging but many people refer to to DCFC charging as "Level 3", although it isn't technically correct. If you see "Level 3" used that's what it refers to.

    Hope this helps.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Helpful x 1
  12. TexasEV

    TexasEV Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2013
    Messages:
    3,773
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    The CHAdeMO stations in the DFW area are all NRG EVGo network. The also have level 2 (J1772) at each of their CHAdeMO locations. You can go to their website to learn about the charges (monthly plan or a la carte), or click on one of the station icons on Plugshsre and it will give the info.

    The Tesla website charging page is a good basic resource with info that every Model S owner should be familiar with.
     
  13. jlucero

    jlucero Member

    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2015
    Messages:
    408
    Location:
    DALLAS
    dgpcolorado and TexasEV---highly appreciate the in depth explanation. you have made it much clearer...

    sounds likes besides Chademo, most charge points are going to be level 2 speeds? (19-30 miles per hour)?
     
  14. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2012
    Messages:
    12,753
    Location:
    Texas
    Which is why RV Parks with 50 amp RV plugs are popular.
     
    • Helpful x 1
    • Like x 1
  15. fillerup

    fillerup Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    NorCal
    Sorry if this doesn't relate. Is charging to 90% at a SuperCharger vs Nema 14-50 vs WC different? Is there any downside to using SC for primary charging to 90%?
     
  16. msnow

    msnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    SoCal
    Define "primary charging". Do you mean instead of charging at home?
     
  17. fillerup

    fillerup Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2016
    Messages:
    31
    Location:
    NorCal
    Yes, just a scenario question, would there be any negative effects in charging via SC to 90% capacity?
     
  18. kennybobby

    kennybobby Member

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2014
    Messages:
    479
    Location:
    Heart o' Dixie
    OP--charge to 100% and don't worry, be happy, since you have limited access to charging and it is not convenient, plus the battery pack has a 10 year infinite miles warranty. Nobody has damaged their pack by charging to 100%. The only scientific test data was from holding a cell at 100% and then putting it into storage for a YEAR--at the end of that time the cell was cycled and it had lost capacity. Has nothing to do with normal everyday usage.
     
    • Dislike x 3
  19. travwill

    travwill Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Messages:
    896
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    And you don't have to go up to 100% fully, just choose 93%, 95% or so if you want. It seems like before Tesla had the current daily/trip slider functionality, the old standard charge was 93% - bumped down now to 90%. Hasn't hurt many of those older first models it seems.
     
  20. msnow

    msnow Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2015
    Messages:
    4,224
    Location:
    SoCal
    If it's just a temporary or rare thing there's no downside but keep in mind that SpC's are for travelers not local residents.
     

Share This Page