Charging cables - charge rates

[OneTinyFish]

Hi all,

Quick question about charge cables.

Today I've charged at home on the 3-pin granny charger, and a public 22kW PodPoint charger.

At home, the Model 3 is connected to the 3-pin in the garage and is charging at a woeful 2kW.

When plugged into the 22kW PodPoint with the Tesla provided Type 2 to Type 2 cable, I was only able to charge at 11kW, at exactly half the maximum speed of the PodPoint.

Is this because my cable is a 16 amp cable? (I don't know).

If so, can I simply purchase a replacement Type 2 cable which will allow a 22kW/h charge rate from this public PodPoint?

 

[Jason71]

The charger supplies AC which has to be converted to DC. Assuming you are driving an M3 then the on board transformer is rated at 11kw so this is the maximum you can consume. If you want to charge faster you need to find a DC charger then you are good for upto 250kw

 

[Roy W.]

You’ll find the Tesla-supplied Type-2 cable will be rated at 32A.

As Jason said, the 11kW limit is due to the inverter capacity on the Model 3. Even if you plugged into a 43kW AC source on one of the Rapid chargers the most your Model 3 can cope with is 11kW.

 

[Glan gluaisne]

The Model 3 has three onboard chargers, each rated at 230 VAC, 16 A. It can configure two of these chargers in parallel when connected to a single phase charge point, to give a maximum of 32 A, which is roughly 7 kW (power will vary a bit with the local supply voltage, that can go up and down a fair bit). Alternatively, it can use all three chargers when it's connected to a 3 phase charge point, which gives roughly 11 kW. Although a 3 phase charge point will often be rated at 32 A per phase, or roughly 22 kW, because the Model 3 chargers are only rated at 16 A each about 11 kW is the most you can get from one of these.

DC charging is completely different, as the charger is the roadside cabinet that you plug into the car, and the car onboard AC chargers aren't used. Instead, the DC battery terminals are switched to the lower two terminals in the CCS connector on the car, so that controlled DC from the rapid charger can flow to the battery, charging it at a much faster rate than is possible when using the onboard AC chargers.

For home charging, the best bet is usually a 32 A charge point, either one with a tethered lead and connector, like the Tesla wall connector, or one with a Type 2 socket on the front that will accept the Type 2 lead that comes with the car. This is just a power outlet with some protection and safety interlock stuff that only turns power on to the car when the car has signalled to the outlet that it's ready to charge. I, like probably many, prefer my home charge points to have tethered cables, as they are quicker and easier to connect to the car, IMHO. There's a fairly wide choice available, constrained somewhat here on the mainland by the way the grant is structured. Not sure if you have that option on the IoM.

 

[GRiLLA]

Also to add the charging cable they give you is 32A 3Phase, which is why it's so think. Good to give you the most options when charging on the road. For my untethered home charger I has a 16A Single Phase cable, far lighter and more flexible.

 

[MrBadger]

Tesla supplied several Type 2 cables - we were supplied a 4m one on collection but I rather wanted the 8m version so I went to see if I could swap. It was pointed out to me that apart from length, the 4m cable was a better cable and more flexible than the different manufacturers 8m one. Having compared, I agreed and stuck with the 4m one. Even though it is definitely 32A/3 phase, its really quite a nice flexible cable probably on a par with single phase cables that I had previously seen.

 

[LongRanger]

I really like the UMC cable with the anti-twist layer.

The type 2 supplied with mine is one of the grey styled Phoenix ones, noticed that a lot of the council Rolec chargers in Pembs have sockets made also by Phoenix. I think the blue styled ones are branded Mennekes ?

Best of the lot for me so far is the cable that comes with the Juice Booster - it’s lovely stuff. #cableporn

 

[Glan gluaisne]

Some cables are pretty rubbish, IMHO. The Tesla wall charger cable is one of the best, as it doesn't tend to twist up, and some of the worst cables are those that seem to be manufactured in the far east. I had to replace one because the cores twisted up inside the outer sheath, making it look lumpy. IIRC, it was a Rolec cable, that I re-purposed, having salvaged it from a Rolec Type2 to Type 1 cable and converting it to a tethered Type 1 cable. If possible, I think it's best to try and choose a charge point that has a European made cable. Cables should have the manufacturers info and the cable type embossed on the outer sheath.

 

[NewbieT]

If you want to charge faster you need to find a DC charger then you are good for upto 250kw

Albeit I think the SR+ tops out at 175kW [EDIT = 170kW after checking] - Tesla capped it due to having a smaller battery. Not really a concern for the IOM though.

 

[OneTinyFish]

The charger supplies AC which has to be converted to DC. Assuming you are driving an M3 then the on board transformer is rated at 11kw so this is the maximum you can consume. If you want to charge faster you need to find a DC charger then you are good for upto 250kw

I'm surprised it's just 11kW. It's not terrible, but I didn't look into it and didn't realise.

You’ll find the Tesla-supplied Type-2 cable will be rated at 32A.

As Jason said, the 11kW limit is due to the inverter capacity on the Model 3. Even if you plugged into a 43kW AC source on one of the Rapid chargers the most your Model 3 can cope with is 11kW.

I didn't know this. It 'feels' like a 32A rated cable as it's the same diameter as the Type 2 to Type 1 32A cable that I bought for my missus' leaf.

The Model 3 has three onboard chargers, each rated at 230 VAC, 16 A. It can configure two of these chargers in parallel when connected to a single phase charge point, to give a maximum of 32 A, which is roughly 7 kW (power will vary a bit with the local supply voltage, that can go up and down a fair bit). Alternatively, it can use all three chargers when it's connected to a 3 phase charge point, which gives roughly 11 kW. Although a 3 phase charge point will often be rated at 32 A per phase, or roughly 22 kW, because the Model 3 chargers are only rated at 16 A each about 11 kW is the most you can get from one of these.

DC charging is completely different, as the charger is the roadside cabinet that you plug into the car, and the car onboard AC chargers aren't used. Instead, the DC battery terminals are switched to the lower two terminals in the CCS connector on the car, so that controlled DC from the rapid charger can flow to the battery, charging it at a much faster rate than is possible when using the onboard AC chargers.

For home charging, the best bet is usually a 32 A charge point, either one with a tethered lead and connector, like the Tesla wall connector, or one with a Type 2 socket on the front that will accept the Type 2 lead that comes with the car. This is just a power outlet with some protection and safety interlock stuff that only turns power on to the car when the car has signalled to the outlet that it's ready to charge. I, like probably many, prefer my home charge points to have tethered cables, as they are quicker and easier to connect to the car, IMHO. There's a fairly wide choice available, constrained somewhat here on the mainland by the way the grant is structured. Not sure if you have that option on the IoM.

I knew about the DC charging bypass, unfortunately, there aren't any DC charge stations on the island so I can't try them out until the border restrictions ease and travel becomes easier. I should be able to get a Zappi 2 on 32A, and I'm awaiting prices from my local installer. I'll take your recommendation of a tethered lead (I'm leaning towards tethered since the weather here can be very inclement in the winter and I'd rather not be fussing around in the boot for a lead in the dark, wind and rain. First world problems, but the tethered Zappi is only £20 more. The challenge here is finding a suitable type 2 to type 1 adapter so my partner can charge her leaf.

Also to add the charging cable they give you is 32A 3Phase, which is why it's so think. Good to give you the most options when charging on the road. For my untethered home charger I has a 16A Single Phase cable, far lighter and more flexible.

So 32A cables are 2x the bulk but 1.3x the performance (11kW vs 7kW)? Once the car accessory buying spree has settled down I might think about a 16A Type 2 cable for public charging for convenience. Thanks!

Tesla supplied several Type 2 cables - we were supplied a 4m one on collection but I rather wanted the 8m version so I went to see if I could swap. It was pointed out to me that apart from length, the 4m cable was a better cable and more flexible than the different manufacturers 8m one. Having compared, I agreed and stuck with the 4m one. Even though it is definitely 32A/3 phase, its really quite a nice flexible cable probably on a par with single phase cables that I had previously seen.

We're going to have some EV events on island; I'll see if I can chase down other EV owners so we can stand around in a carpark and compare cable, uh, length? and Girth??

I really like the UMC cable with the anti-twist layer.

The type 2 supplied with mine is one of the grey styled Phoenix ones, noticed that a lot of the council Rolec chargers in Pembs have sockets made also by Phoenix. I think the blue styled ones are branded Mennekes ?

Best of the lot for me so far is the cable that comes with the Juice Booster - it’s lovely stuff. #cableporn

I've got a grey Pheonix cable too.

Juice Booster is expensive - I'm not seeing the problem it solves. Is it intended for cross-border (hence the need for different sockets) trips?

 

[Glan gluaisne]

The challenge here is finding a suitable type 2 to type 1 adapter so my partner can charge her leaf.

You just need one of these: Type 1 to Type 2 Charging cable adapter - evChargeking

 

[Sean.]

11 kW limitation on board AC is purely down to cost / budget limits, as they were fitting 22 kW on board to S and X.

Not really a problem for overnight, but personally I am thankful for the larger cap. on AC when doing a quick turnaround day top up, with the larger and heavier car, without having to resort to DC or supers.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

The problem with a 16a 3 phase cable is if the charge point is single phase you’re limited to 3.6kw. Most of the chargers I’ve used on the island (like Port Erin) are single phase. And I doubt you want to be carrying 2 cables.

 

[GeorgeSymonds]

11 kW limitation on board AC is purely down to cost / budget limits, as they were fitting 22 kW on board to S and X.

Not really a problem for overnight, but personally I am thankful for the larger cap. on AC when doing a quick turnaround day top up, with the larger and heavier car, without having to resort to DC or supers.

Everything is cost or compromise in life, but here it was space, the MX couldn’t accommodate the 2 11kw chargers the pre facelift MS could fit and they came up with a 24a 3 phase as the best they could manage and this is used in ms and Mx. I suspect either size (or marketing) means the M3 is smaller again.

 

[webbah]

Juice Booster 2 travel kit is expensive as hell but I got it as well with extensions. The small case it comes in fits perfect in the frunk. Haven't had the need much for most of the adapters, yet, but has come in handy with the extensions when visiting friends and also at camp sites around Europe. I sold the one provided by Tesla as it is simply too short in some cases at public chargers without doing gymnastics with the car parking.

 

[GRiLLA]

So 32A cables are 2x the bulk but 1.3x the performance (11kW vs 7kW)? Once the car accessory buying spree has settled down I might think about a 16A Type 2 cable for public charging for convenience. Thanks!

The problem with a 16a 3 phase cable is if the charge point is single phase you’re limited to 3.6kw. Most of the chargers I’ve used on the island (like Port Erin) are single phase. And I doubt you want to be carrying 2 cables.

This , with a 32A 3-phase cable in the car you can connect to either

• 32A Single phase and charge at 7kW
• 16A Three phase and charge at 11kW

It's the sensible option for mobile use, always charge at the fastest the car can take. If you know you will only ever charge singlephase e.g. at home with an unteathered charger then a single phase cable will be slightly more convenient.

 

[Rustybkts]

Some cables are pretty rubbish, IMHO. The Tesla wall charger cable is one of the best, as it doesn't tend to twist up, and some of the worst cables are those that seem to be manufactured in the far east. I had to replace one because the cores twisted up inside the outer sheath, making it look lumpy. IIRC, it was a Rolec cable, that I re-purposed, having salvaged it from a Rolec Type2 to Type 1 cable and converting it to a tethered Type 1 cable. If possible, I think it's best to try and choose a charge point that has a European made cable. Cables should have the manufacturers info and the cable type embossed on the outer sheath.

Agreed. I have a Rolec cable that terminates to a Type 1 plug originally for my old Ampera. It is completely knotted inside even though I have OCD about cables and always coil them back correctly. Don't even mention telephone handset cables on other desks!

 

[Sean.]

Everything is cost or compromise in life, but here it was space, the MX couldn’t accommodate the 2 11kw chargers the pre facelift MS could fit and they came up with a 24a 3 phase as the best they could manage and this is used in ms and Mx. I suspect either size (or marketing) means the M3 is smaller again.

Yes very true. Only 24A per phase rather than 32A on the current S and X, up to 18 kW ish rather than the 22 kW of the earlier twin charger setup.

I do now remember calling up Tesla back in the day and asking ‘hey why is my car only charging at 24A on 3-phase...’

 

[john19951]

Thank you all for the information in this thread.

I should be able to access a 22kw three phase free charger on one of my regular journeys. From the posts above the maximum rate of charge I can get with the Model 3 is 11kw (equivalent to 40 mph) - please correct me if that is wrong.

In addition to Tesla Superchargers, what other chargers will give me over 11kw. In other words, if I am searching for suitable chargers on a map, what should I be looking for.

 

[LukeUK]

Yup, AC charging is limited to 11 kW.

Any CCS charger will in theory give you charge rates up to (and potentially) higher than superchargers, though that depends on the state of the charger, and the car.

Have a look at Map of charging points for electric car drivers in UK: Zap-Map for the UK, and filter by CCS. I'm not sure what equivalents exists for France?

Luke