TMC is an independent, primarily volunteer organization that relies on ad revenue to cover its operating costs. Please consider whitelisting TMC on your ad blocker or making a Paypal contribution here: paypal.me/SupportTMC

Charging etiquette on the local news

Discussion in 'Charging Standards and Infrastructure' started by jamieb, Jul 30, 2014.

  1. jamieb

    jamieb Member

    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2013
    Messages:
    153
    Location:
    Sacramento
  2. Rainbow

    Rainbow Member

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2013
    Messages:
    84
    Location:
    USA
    Seems like the law, mall cops and news articles might be jumping to conclusions. Should it matter whether or not the car was actually charging? Just because it was plugged in, doesn't necessarily mean it was charging.

    If it was charging when the woman disconnected the charging cable, then I would consider it a wrong.

    However if the car wasn't charging, then I see nothing at fault with what the woman did.

    If the charge had completed a long time ago, then I think the driver of the car she unplugged is at fault.

    As far as I am concerned it is just as bad as people that use charging spaces as places to park their electric cars. I think it is wrong for people to leave their electric cars in charging slots, without charging or indefinitely after the charge is complete. I think it should be a requirement to remove cars from charging slots, within an hour of charge being complete.
     
  3. Kipernicus

    Kipernicus Model S Res#P1440

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2009
    Messages:
    1,172
    Location:
    Belmont, CA
    But what if the other car was done charging?
    Sensationalist "news" that doesn't go into specifics and doesn't educate.
    Agree they should focus on ICEing as well.
     
  4. Lloyd

    Lloyd Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    4,886
    Location:
    San Luis Obispo, CA
    I got a nastygram on my car one day. I pulled up next to a volt, and noted that the charge port was open, but the connector was lying under the EVSE on the ground. I plugged in and when I returned there was an essay taped to my window telling me what an ***hole I was for unplugging her. Oh well. I did not respond as I was in a hurry, but apparently someone else unplugged her to let me be the recipient of her wrath! :crying:
     
  5. ChrisPDX

    ChrisPDX Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    159
    Location:
    Hillsboro, OR
    I've unplugged another EV just once before. I was 680 miles from home traveling to my company's HQ. All chargers were in use so I parked next to a Fiat 500e (there were two spots per charger). I noticed that its dash indicator said there was an error and the Blink screen was at the welcome screen. I'm not sure if this person started and there was an issue or if they just plugged in to look like they were charging (unlikely as these spots were about the furthest possible from the building). So I unplugged them and started charging. I made sure my contact card was on the dash, but nobody called me. When I left later that day, they were still parked there. I would have plugged them back in, but wasn't about to let them charge on my dime! :smile:

    I've never been unplugged myself, but would be upset depending on the situation (plugin-hybrid stealing the cable while I'm traveling and need a destination charge would very much piss me off). I leave my contact info on the dash when using a free public charger, but have yet to be contacted. Never bother with the fee based ones as they just aren't used much around here.
     
  6. Gizmotoy

    Gizmotoy Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2013
    Messages:
    3,146
    Location:
    Bay Area, CA
    I unplugged a Prius Plug-in once in Carmel. There's exactly 1 charger for the entire town, and the Prius parked into a spot close to, but not the actual EV charging spot and pulled the cord over. I can tell from the parking slip on the dash it'd been 3 hours since they got there, but it was still plugged in, charging completed long ago.

    I needed to charge, so I parked in the actual EV spot, removed the charger, and plugged in. I felt guilty and went back later with a note and a Peet's free small coffee card and stuck it on the window.

    They didn't deserve it, but I didn't want to get keyed, either if they came back and their car didn't fully charge for some reason.


    There used to be an Accord plug-in in our building that would plug in after work on Friday and leave it there until Monday. Or overnight during the week. Those things charge in 40 minutes. I think someone said something, though. They've been more courteous lately.
     
  7. aaronw

    aaronw Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    United States
    I once unplugged a Volt at a mall in Monterey. There were only two charging stations available and I did not have enough charge left to reach the Gilroy supercharger. One charger had a Leaf and the other a Volt. After waiting a while I ended up unplugging the Volt and plugging in for an hour to add 18 miles of range because I needed it. I would have left a note but I didn't have a pen and paper with me. It was a Chargepoint charger that charged an outrageous amount of money, something like $4.95/hour plus electricity. I ended up waiting there the entire hour since I had my dog with me. Now when you get unplugged with Chargepoint you get a text message.

    In any event, I left a note on the Chargepoint web site and the Leaf owner said the Volt owner was still there five hours later when he returned and that the Volt owner move some stuff to an ICE car and drove off in the ICE, leaving the Volt. To me it's just as inconsiderate to just leave your car in a charging spot for longer than it takes to charge when there is a shortage of spots.

    I rarely use public charging spots myself. I ended up using one last night because most spots were pretty tight and there were numerous free EV charging spots at the garage, otherwise I wouldn't have bothered.

    I think if you really need to charge to reach your next destination it is acceptable to unplug a plug-in hybrid. As it is, I probably saved the Volt owner a lot of money.
     
  8. AndY1

    AndY1 Member

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2014
    Messages:
    178
    Location:
    Slovenia, EU
    #8 AndY1, Jul 31, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2014
    I don't agree. Why would a Volt owner have to drive on gasoline because of your range miscalculation?

    Also, please read this: Eight Rules of Electric Vehicle Charging Etiquette | PluginCars.com

    And what the Volt driver did, doesn't actually matter, because you were made aware of that after what you did - that's just an excuse to make you feel better. What if the Volt owner was an honest EV driver, who needed a charge. At least, after you were done charging, you could plug him back in at your own expense.
     
  9. aaronw

    aaronw Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2012
    Messages:
    281
    Location:
    United States
    For one thing it was an EV ONLY parking spot, not a plug-in hybrid parking spot. Second of all, when there are a limited number of charging spots those should be reserved for those who need them. I generally do not park in EV parking spots when I don't need to. I know enough people with Leafs that have to charge at those spots to not be stranded.

    I'd do it again in an instant if it means the difference between being stranded or not, an no, it has nothing to do with range calculations. If there are a lot of EV charging spots it's a different matter. I also waited a long time before I did that. I think when the number of charging spots is limited that it's quite rude to use it if you don't need it, if you're driving an EV or a plug-in hybrid. It is like the person at a limited pump gas station who stays at the pump long after they've filled up when there's a line. If you do use a spot like that, leave a card or note with some way to contact you.

    When I go to my parent's time share there is a single NEMA 14-50 outlet. I always leave a note with contact info and what time it's safe to unplug me.

    If there's 5-6 chargers it's a different story since cars will be turning over more frequently. When there are only one or two chargers it's a different matter. I also drove all over Monterey trying to find a charger.
     
  10. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,568
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I leave this on my dash with the paper clip indicating the time I can be unplugged. I also have my phone number shown. Eliminates all the confusion:

    Card.jpg
     
  11. ecarfan

    ecarfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2013
    Messages:
    10,381
    Location:
    San Mateo, CA
    @mknox, I thought that the Model S charging cable could not be unplugged unless the fob was present? The text of the message you leave on your dash seems to indicate that anyone can unplug your car at any time.

    Or am I mistaken? Won't be the first time...
     
  12. rlang59

    rlang59 Member

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2013
    Messages:
    923
    Location:
    US
    A J1772 charger can be unplugged without the fob present.
     
  13. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    That's correct. The adapter stays locked into the Model S but someone can disconnect power by unlatching the J1772 handle.
     
  14. CatB

    CatB Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2013
    Messages:
    663
    I parked at Dulles in an EV spot (multiple spots per Chargepoint charger) and left my biz card on the Volt next to me saying "please plug me in when you leave". He did (although he did so about 5 minutes after I landed, so I didn't get much charge time) and then sent me an email saying he did so at 9:15 previous note and added "etiquette says you can unplug when the other person is done charging."
    I just don't know how to tell if a Volt, Leaf or other is done though... it would be great if everyone followed mknox's example, but... they don't.:cool:
     
  15. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,710
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    Sadly, this is primarily an issue with low range EVs that need to plug in around every corner in order to make it through the day. If you own an EV with decent and practical range, you only need to plug in when you get home. Sure, those other EVs don't cost as much as Model S, but then what is your time and frustration worth? I may have paid for it up front, but I am completely immune to this nonsense of plugging in while shopping, eating, having a bowel movement, etc. I can use regular parking spaces all day long, all over town, and still have enough range left over for two more days of driving.
     
  16. liuping

    liuping Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    San Diego
    #16 liuping, Aug 1, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2014
    Sorry, but you had no idea if the Volt had enough gas or charge to get home or to a gas station. (We frequently only have a gallon or two in our Volt)

    You very well may have just stranded a fellow EV'r so you can get home yourself. THAT IS NOT OKAY!

    The fact that you say you would do it again, makes you no better the an ICE owner parking in an EV spot. Actually, I think it makes you worse, since they rarely actively unplug EVs.
     
  17. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

    Joined:
    May 17, 2009
    Messages:
    18,235
    Location:
    Las Vegas, NV
    Do you include Plug In Prius in this calculation? Either the Volt or Plug In Prius can still get home with gas. A gallon should get you to a gas station. I agree you shouldn't unplug people without knowing their charge status but the PiP definitely doesn't need a charge. If you unplug someone you should stay next to your car or definitely leave a note and make a good attempt to figure out who is parked there if possible (hotel guest for example).

    If you have a Volt it might make sense to fill the tank more often since that is your backup and EV range is severely limited.
     
  18. AmpedRealtor

    AmpedRealtor Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2013
    Messages:
    4,710
    Location:
    Buckeye, AZ
    I'm with aaronw on this one.

    If I desperately need a charge and the only spot available is occupied by a plug-in hybrid that doesn't really need the electricity, I would have no inhibition unplugging that person. Without that charge, I can't go anywhere. The plug-in hybrid, by contrast, can still go anywhere. If the plug-in hybrid driver had an empty gas tank, or only 1-2 gallons in a much larger tank, whose responsibility is that?

    Charging is about being able to get to your next destination. It's about NEED, not want. The pure EV has priority here over plug-in hybrids. Being able to charge is critical for a pure EV, not so for plug-in hybrids. Like it or not, by purchasing a plug-in hybrid you are indicating to everyone that you don't need to plug-in to drive, meaning that it is not a critical function to get to your next destination. Anything beyond that, with regard to how much gas is in your tank, would require mind reading on the part of others. Keeping your tank filled is the owner's responsibility, and driving it purely like an EV is a conscious choice that you can make. Pure EV drivers cannot make a conscious choice to fill up on gas when a charging spot is occupied.
     
  19. liuping

    liuping Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2013
    Messages:
    1,858
    Location:
    San Diego
    You should not assume a Volt has any gas or range left. The Leaf could already have 70 miles range, so why unplug the Volt that might not even have 5 miles charge yet?

    Volts can drive for months and months without using any gas at all, so some people don't keep much in the tank to avoid lugging around the extra weight. They every well may need the charge to get home. or to an emergency gas station stop, because they now don't have enough charge.

    Maybe Leaf owners should charge more often, so they will not get stranded if there are no chargers available...
     
  20. mknox

    mknox Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,568
    Location:
    Toronto, ON
    I would be hesitant to unplug a Volt. They can be set up (and perhaps are by default?) to sound the car's alarm if the cable is unplugged. I scared the crap out of myself with our company Volt the first time I unplugged it at home before I had unlocked the car. That horn/alarm is LOUD in an enclosed garage.

    Do any other EVs do this?

    I wish my Model S would at least send a text or something if the charging stops for any of the various reasons it might (and I realize VisibleTesla can accommodate this, but it relies on a computer running somewhere).
     

Share This Page