Charging etiquette on the local news

[johnnyS]

There are so many variables with public chargers. When I get there, will it:
work?
be ICED?
be occupied?
I do not plan a trip depending on public chargers. I have used public chargers, but a plan B is always needed for backup.

 

[dsm363]

You should not assume a Volt has any gas or range left. The Leaf could already have 70 miles range, so why unplug the Volt that might not even have 5 miles charge yet?

Volts can drive for months and months without using any gas at all, so some people don't keep much in the tank to avoid lugging around the extra weight. They every well may need the charge to get home. or to an emergency gas station stop, because they now don't have enough charge.

Maybe Leaf owners should charge more often, so they will not get stranded if there are no chargers available...

You shouldn't unplug people without knowing their charge status but a Volt driving around with no gas is on them. The entire point of buying a Volt is to have the gas backup, otherwise they bought an EV with half the range of a Leaf.

Leaf owners do charge when they can. Volt owners should keep a gas tank that is full for situations where there are no chargers, broken chargers, or chargers taken by EVs.

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I think people need to look at this from another perspective.

Say you need a charge and you notice a Leaf has been there for 1 hour. Since he has 20 miles range now and there is another charger within 20 miles, you feel your can unplugging him to charge your car, since he can "make it to the next charger"? Sure it's in convent and may cost him time, but hey, you need a charge and you feel it's your right to unplug people who don't "need" to be charging right then.

How would you feel someone did that to you? Your would go probably go ballistic call the other driver inconsiderate, post a rant on TMC, etc.

No one has the right to unplug another car without permission, unless the car is done charging. You can make excuses to justify your actions, but they are still wrong.

Beside being wrong on principle, you may also be stealing money from him. Many chargers charge a base fee + hourly rate, and most charge a whole hour increment. if he paid $4.95 + $1 an hour and you unplug him a 1/2 hour in. You basically stole $5.49 from him. Even if it's just a $2 an hour flat rate, unless you unplug in at 59 minutes into an hour, you are still stealing from him up to $1.99. Yeah it's just a few $, and I guess some people feel fine just taking money from people because they need it now.

I understand your argument. People simply shouldn't unplug people unless they know they are full and leave a note. If you must unplug someone you should stay by your car and then plug them back in when you are done.

But yes, the larger point is people should be more considerate. While there are limited resources and more cars than charging and lots of inconsiderate drivers this will continue to be a problem. But and EV is not an EV. As was said, if a Volt came along and unplugged a Leaf early the Leaf might not be able to make it home. The other way around the Volt could still stop at a gas station. Yes, both are wrong but one has a much easier time getting home than the other.

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That's an interesting view. So, Volt owners should have enough gasoline in their vehicles, so they can get home in case a Model S owner unplugs him at the charging station, but you don't need to take care to have enough charge left to get home.

Well Volt owners should have enough fuel in their car to have their entire 300 mile range. Otherwise what's the point? Buy an EV with 35 mile range and save money. And no, Model S owners shouldn't go around unplugging people. This has more to do with the person than the car. Inconsiderate and rude people drive all kinds of cars.

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One further thought. I concede that it's a bit rude to unplug a PHEV. But we are still in the early days of EV adoption, and until public charging options are ubiquitous, there are going to be times where we have to make some sacrifices to support each other as a community.

I would hope that the very minor inconvenience one might experience if there PHEV was unplugged so a BEV could charge is something we could all bear with a certain good humor, but maybe that's asking too much.

Good summary. It is rude to unplug someone and people should do it with care and by leaving their contact information or staying by the car. If I had to unplug a Volt I thought was done charging I would leave my contact information. If they determined I cost then $2.58 then I would Paypal it to them.

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You had a choice, and decided not to buy a range extended EV. You do not know if they have a choice or not, unless you can ready their gas gauge. and you are costing the the price of the charge and the gas needed to get home.

Didn't they also have the choice to by a Leaf (double the EV range), actually fill their gas tank or buy a regular ICE with 300+ mile range? They choose to buy an 'EV' with 35 mile range (which is great that they are driving almost entirely on electricity) then purposely chose to hamper their backup power? That would be like a Model S owner only charging to 50% then using every possible public charging spot because of the short range of the car.

If I had a Volt I would make every effort to drive electric but would have enough gas for any situation and not depend on EV mode to get to my destination.

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If Tesla and the other EV and PHEV makers would come up with a common way to notify people standing next to your car of charge status, that would take a lot of the guess work out.
You can understand a BEV driver who needs to get a charge to get home (even with proper planning as we all know the charging infrastructure isn't great) wanting to unplug a car they know has the capability to get home on gas. Wether or not that Volt driver actually puts gas in their car they have no way to know.

It boggles the mind that someone would buy a Volt then drive around on empty though. I thought the entire point of the car was to have a gas backup.

 

[David99]

By prematurely unplugging another owner, you are increasing their costs. Are you prepared to reimburse them because you felt you were somehow more entitled?

If there is one charger and two EVs both have equal right. Just because someone came first doesn't mean they own the spot as long as they want.

I have never ever unplugged someone else, but I see this all the time: plug in cars use EV charging stations for convenient parking all the time here in Los Angeles. Half of the time they don't even plug in, or they plug in but never use their card to activate the charger (I can see on the display it's not charging). I have never seen a pure EV do this, but I see Volt and Prius do it a lot. This is, at least here in Los Angeles, a much bigger issue than ICEing.

Overall the solution is not to educate or enforce time limits or get mad at each other. The solution is to install more chargers and put them in inconvenient places so people only use them for what they are meant for, not for priority parking.

 

[TEG]

There are so many variables with public chargers. When I get there, will it:
work?
be ICED?
be occupied?
I do not plan a trip depending on public chargers. I have used public chargers, but a plan B is always needed for backup.

I have heard some other terms thrown around.
Along with "ICEd" (gas car parked in the chart spot) there is
"AMPed" (Low rate charging at a high rate charge spot... e.g., your Tesla tries to use a 70amp J station, but there is a 12amp LEAF planning to stay there for hours.)
"DBagged" (Incompatible EV in your charge spot... e.g., There is a Roadster parked at a CHAdeMO parking spot, or a J1772 vehicle parked in a Supercharging spot.)

Some spaces say "EV parking only", but just because you have an EV doesn't mean you make make (the best) use of that particular spot. Sometimes it would have been better to drive a little further to get to a (more) compatible charge spot.

 

[Merrill]

You shouldn't unplug people without knowing their charge status but a Volt driving around with no gas is on them. The entire point of buying a Volt is to have the gas backup, otherwise they bought an EV with half the range of a Leaf.

Leaf owners do charge when they can. Volt owners should keep a gas tank that is full for situations where there are no chargers, broken chargers, or chargers taken by EVs.

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I understand your argument. People simply shouldn't unplug people unless they know they are full and leave a note. If you must unplug someone you should stay by your car and then plug them back in when you are done.

But yes, the larger point is people should be more considerate. While there are limited resources and more cars than charging and lots of inconsiderate drivers this will continue to be a problem. But and EV is not an EV. As was said, if a Volt came along and unplugged a Leaf early the Leaf might not be able to make it home. The other way around the Volt could still stop at a gas station. Yes, both are wrong but one has a much easier time getting home than the other.

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Well Volt owners should have enough fuel in their car to have their entire 300 mile range. Otherwise what's the point? Buy an EV with 35 mile range and save money. And no, Model S owners shouldn't go around unplugging people. This has more to do with the person than the car. Inconsiderate and rude people drive all kinds of cars.

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Good summary. It is rude to unplug someone and people should do it with care and by leaving their contact information or staying by the car. If I had to unplug a Volt I thought was done charging I would leave my contact information. If they determined I cost then $2.58 then I would Paypal it to them.

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Didn't they also have the choice to by a Leaf (double the EV range), actually fill their gas tank or buy a regular ICE with 300+ mile range? They choose to buy an 'EV' with 35 mile range (which is great that they are driving almost entirely on electricity) then purposely chose to hamper their backup power? That would be like a Model S owner only charging to 50% then using every possible public charging spot because of the short range of the car.

If I had a Volt I would make every effort to drive electric but would have enough gas for any situation and not depend on EV mode to get to my destination.

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If Tesla and the other EV and PHEV makers would come up with a common way to notify people standing next to your car of charge status, that would take a lot of the guess work out.
You can understand a BEV driver who needs to get a charge to get home (even with proper planning as we all know the charging infrastructure isn't great) wanting to unplug a car they know has the capability to get home on gas. Wether or not that Volt driver actually puts gas in their car they have no way to know.

It boggles the mind that someone would buy a Volt then drive around on empty though. I thought the entire point of the car was to have a gas backup.

It is very common for some Volt owners to try not to use there gas engine as a back up so they can say they have not purchased gas in 6 months. Having said that I would never unplug anyone unless I know there are fully charged, and if I did leave a note.

 

[dsm363]

It is very common for some Volt owners to try not to use there gas engine as a back up so they can say they have not purchased gas in 6 months. Having said that I would never unplug anyone unless I know there are fully charged, and if I did leave a note.

Which is great.
Is it even possible to tell if a Volt is fully charged from the outside? Ah, just found this:

This is a useful summary from the gm-volt forum of how to tell if a EV or PHEV is done. Telsa could do a better job of this.
How to Tell if an EV is Finished Charging . . ..

BMW ActiveE
Blue light on bottom of center rear view mirror is not illuminated

A blinking blue light indicates charging is in progress.

Chevy Volt
Short flashing green light on top of dashboard

A solid green light indicates charging is in progress. A long flashing light indicates delayed charging, which should never be used in a public charging spot when others may be waiting.

Coda
{someone let me know and I'll update this}

Fisker Karma
The charge level indicator on the instrument cluster will reach maximum and the charge indicator will turn off.

While the vehicle is charging, the charging indicator light on the instrument cluster will be illuminated and the battery charge level indicator will display the current charge level.

Ford CMAX Energi
Blue ring around charge port/plug is not illuminated

The blue ring lights up in four blue quartered segments while charging and will shut off when charging is complete.

Ford Focus Electric
Blue ring around charge port/plug is not illuminated

The blue ring lights up in four blue quartered segments while charging and will shut off when charging is complete.

Honda Fit EV
The green LED next to the port/plug turns off when it's done charging

If it's flashing, the charging rate has been reduced because of a problem.

Mitsubishi i-MiEV
Red electric plug symbol on dashboard is not lit

Look through car windows at the dashboard to see if there is a red electric plug symbol lit. If it is lit then it is still charging. If it is off then it is not charging.

Nissan Leaf
All three blue lights on top of dashboard are all on or are all off.

Decoding Leaf's triple light set:
One flashing light 0-33%
One solid, one flashing - 33% to 66%
Two solid, one flashing - 66% to 100%
Three solid - 100%
All lights off - 100%
Tesla Roadster
Solid green lighting around inside of charge port.

While charging is in progress, the lighting inside the charge port area flashes amber.

Tesla Model S
The light around the charge port stops pulsing and the light turns solid green.
Good news: When you plug in the charging cable, a light around the charge port pulses green during charging. When charging is complete, the light around the charge port stops pulsing and the light turns solid green.
Bad news: If the Model S is locked during charging, the charge port light does not illuminate but the vehicle continues to charge.
Toyota Plug-in Prius
The amber electric plug icon next to the charging port is not illuminated.

Th!nk
When only one of the two green lights on top of the dash is lit

When both are lit and linked, charging is in progress. If only one is lit, charging is complete.

Toyota RAV4 EV
Both amber lights (at the bottom of the back side window above the charge port on the driver's side of the car) will be solid or off

There are two amber lights at the bottom of the back side window above the charge port on the driver's side of the car. When charging from less than half a charge, the left light will blink and the right one will be off. Once past half charge, the left light will be solid and the right one will blink. Once fully charged, both amber lights will be solid for only a few minutes after a full charge--they then both turn off. Therefore, it is charging if only one light is blinking (with the other either off or solid on). If both are off or both are on the charge is complete. If they blink in an alternate fashion (one on, other off, then switch), the car is in a delayed charge mode, which should never be used in a public charging spot when others may be waiting.

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Plug in Prius
The Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid | PluginCars.com
"Using a 240-volt charger will fully replenish an empty PIP battery in about 1.5 hours. With a standard 120-volt outlet, expect about three hours of charging. Still, that’s not bad."

 

[liuping]

It boggles the mind that someone would buy a Volt then drive around on empty though. I thought the entire point of the car was to have a gas backup.

I think many Volt's are bought as a sort of EV with training wheels. The buyer (or perhaps a spouse) may be uncomfortable buying a pure EV, or any EV with a range less than 200 miles. Not everyone buys a car just for commuting and can have a spare for other days.

Once they experience EV driving and get comfortable, they no long want to have anything to do with a gasoline engine.

I call the Volt a "Gateway EV", once they get a taste, they want a real EV. Currently the only BEV with a reasonable range is the Model S, which is why you will find more then a couple Model S owners also have a Volt.

 

[andrewket]

I bought a volt after I already owned the model S. I wanted a BEV but the only car other than the S available to me in VA was the leaf. I wanted a car with an active cooking system. The leaf with its passive system is problematic from a longevity perspective. Plus the primary driver of the volt is not super savvy about EVs. So the volt fit the bill. It's driven over 99% electric. The 1% is mostly because the primary driver forgot to plug it in.

Don't dismiss volts as baby or want to be EVs. There are still not enough options for small to mid capacity BEVs in all 50 states.

 

[jerry33]

Don't dismiss volts as baby or want to be EVs. There are still not enough options for small to mid capacity BEVs in all 50 states.

I don't believe it's a dismissal, it's just what often happens. People buy a Volt/Prius/other hybrid and their next car is fully electric. Of course, you're right that there are not many viable BEVs on the market.

 

[liuping]

I wanted a car with an active cooking system.

Man we missed out. That was definitely not an available option on the 2013 model.

 

[andrewket]

Man we missed out. That was definitely not an available option on the 2013 model.

Lol. Darn iOS. Cooling system

 

[EchoDelta]

Sorry, but you had no idea if the Volt had enough gas or charge to get home or to a gas station. (We frequently only have a gallon or two in our Volt)

You very well may have just stranded a fellow EV'r so you can get home yourself. THAT IS NOT OKAY!

The fact that you say you would do it again, makes you no better the an ICE owner parking in an EV spot. Actually, I think it makes you worse, since they rarely actively unplug EVs.

+1 .
I am not to judge the worth of someone else's charge. (& viceversa)

 

[FLDarren]

I don't believe it's a dismissal, it's just what often happens. People buy a Volt/Prius/other hybrid and their next car is fully electric. Of course, you're right that there are not many viable BEVs on the market.

This is my 3rd car. First-ICE, Second-Hybrid, Third-BEV. Who knows what number four will be?

 

[JST]

This is my 3rd car. First-ICE, Second-Hybrid, Third-BEV. Who knows what number four will be?

Hydrogen, if Toyota has its way.

 

[brianman]

The rule should be simple: If the car is done charging or there is a note say it's okay, you can unplug them. If not, don't.

And for every hour that you leave your vehicle occupying the only charge location for 10s / 100s of miles after you're "full", you donate $1,000 to the "need more charging stations fund". Deal?

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Beside being wrong on principle, you may also be stealing money from him. Many chargers charge a base fee + hourly rate, and most charge a whole hour increment. if he paid $4.95 + $1 an hour and you unplug him a 1/2 hour in. You basically stole $5.49 from him. Even if it's just a $2 an hour flat rate, unless you unplug in at 59 minutes into an hour, you are still stealing from him up to $1.99. Yeah it's just a few $, and I guess some people feel fine just taking money from people because they need it now.

Along this line of thinking...

I think I'd be a fan of something like the following:
1. Install security cameras at charging locations to resolve disputes that arise.
2. Hourly rate for parking in an EV spot without plugging in: $1,000
3. Hourly rate for parking in an EV spot while plugged in but "done" charging: $100
4. $50/hr from #2 and #3 is assigned to a budget to pay for the camera installations from #1

#1 is mostly so that if people unplug others then the pricing difference between 2 and 3 will be assigned to the elf/gremlin that did so

 

[Peter_M]

If Tesla and the other EV and PHEV makers would come up with a common way to notify people standing next to your car of charge status, that would take a lot of the guess work out.

I asked Tesla for something along those lines in another thread. For the Model S today, even if the car is locked, if you press the charge cable button, it will show the status for 30 seconds - either charging (flashing green), done (solid green), or blue (scheduled). So that's enough to make up a sign saying "If you need to charge, press the button. If it's solid green, go ahead and unplug me." This only works for J1772 though - for SuperChargers or HPWCs (or UMC if you've somehow locked it down), we need the other part of the feature I requested - a way for the Model S owner to unlock the port once the battery reaches a specified charge level. Without that, the sign would have to say "call me" for those cases.

 

[andrewket]

I asked Tesla for something along those lines in another thread. For the Model S today, even if the car is locked, if you press the charge cable button, it will show the status for 30 seconds - either charging (flashing green), done (solid green), or blue (scheduled). So that's enough to make up a sign saying "If you need to charge, press the button. If it's solid green, go ahead and unplug me." This only works for J1772 though - for SuperChargers or HPWCs (or UMC if you've somehow locked it down), we need the other part of the feature I requested - a way for the Model S owner to unlock the port once the battery reaches a specified charge level. Without that, the sign would have to say "call me" for those cases.

Only the Tesla handles have this button, and when the car is locked it won't release the plug.

With the J1772 adapter you don't have the button, but you can unplug while the car is locked. The adapter will stay with the car.

So unfortunately this does not work. Personally I think tesla should have a config option to either allow the dashboard to stay illuminated or the charge port ring which shows the charging status.

 

[brianman]

"DBagged" (Incompatible EV in your charge spot... e.g., There is a Roadster parked at a CHAdeMO parking spot, or a J1772 vehicle parked in a Supercharging spot.)

For the record, I saw this problem at Palo Alto (Tesla HQ) in the valet area. Specifically, the Roadster and Model S parking was misaligned such that some of the Model S HPWCs couldn't be connected because a Roadster was parked in the way (and the Roadster plug was stretched across a spot to reach its HPC).

 

[Peter_M]

Only the Tesla handles have this button, and when the car is locked it won't release the plug.

With the J1772 adapter you don't have the button, but you can unplug while the car is locked. The adapter will stay with the car.

So unfortunately this does not work. Personally I think tesla should have a config option to either allow the dashboard to stay illuminated or the charge port ring which shows the charging status.

OK - I thought the charge port would show the status if you pressed the unlock button on a J1772 handle, like it does with a Tesla handle, but maybe I'm wrong about that. I'll check it next time I'm at a J1772 charging station.
But did you look at the feature I requested here? I think it covers all the cases, but if not, I'd like to hear where it's lacking (comment on that thread). Of course, Tesla would also need to decide to do it :smile:

 

[Peter_M]

Turns out I was right. If your car is locked and charging on a J1772, if you push and release the unlock button on the handle (leaving it connected), the charge port will light up, showing either flashing green if it's still charging or solid green if it's done.

So a sign saying "If you need to charge, push and release the button - if the charge port is solid green (not pulsating), you can unplug me" would work. The J1772 adaptor seems to stay locked to the car as long as the car is locked.