I work from be. If I go out it’s usually only one, maybe two trips. Everything is 10-15 miles. Occasionally 40-50 Mile round trip once a month. I can charge once a week overnight with a standard outlet.
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charging, how often do you plug in at home?
- Thread starter RidgeRunner
- Start date
73Bruin
Member
I pretty much fit your retired profile. Outside of one road trip of 329 miles each way, my longest drive has been 26 miles 1 way. My normal goal is to keep the car between a 40% and 60% state of charge (or roughly 130 to 195 miles of range) as that is supposedly easiest on the battery life. I don't leave my AWD MY plugged in, but I do watch the range indicator. I have seen no evidence of significant battery drain (phantom or other); at most the range sometimes drops a mile or 2 from what I remember it was. I don't think looking at the range indicator is any more difficult than looking at a gas gauge and setting a mental reminder note for yourself to get gas before you go someplace. With a home wall charger, its actually a lot more convenient, because I can plug in when I get home or virtually anytime.
Due to the way my electric company has its rates structured, sometimes I do plugin in the morning when I get the newspaper (see I am old). Plugging in with my home wall charger takes about 10 seconds. Its on a 60amp breaker, so an hour of charging adds 43 miles of range and at the low morning rate costs about $1.60. If I know that I may want more range, its easy enough to change the charging limit to go to 80% SoC (260 miles of range) in 3 hours. If you carry your cell phone the Tesla app will show you the range from the last time the car woke up, so you don't even need to go down to the car to look.
Note: I live in Southern California about a mile from the beach; its a very mild climate (the average January temps are 67/47). I keep the MY in my garage under my townhome and it never gets even that cold. So without a morning commute, I don't have to worry about prepping the car for a drive or heating it before getting in. I have never seen the dots that indicated limited regen. I could see having different habits if I lived elsewhere.
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TravelFree
Active Member
We have different charging habits depending on which EV we're talking about.
Couple of points-
EV's in the colder climates should be plugged in all the time when not driving to prevent battery heater phantom drain, but in the south where the temperatures never require heaters, it is less important.
People who drive short trips several times a week shouldn't need to maintain their EV's with 80-90% SOC every day.
In the case of our 2019 Nissan Leaf, the range dictated we charge up every day to full 100% to make the next day's round trip plus some about town driving. That is now replaced with the M Y LR . My wife will now go 2 days of round trips plus some about town driving before reaching 30% SOC. Then she will charge up to 90% for the next days travel.
My Model S has been on an entirely different plan. It has free SC so I take advantage of that and let it go to 20% SOC and then DC Supercharge to 80%. I do this about 2 times a month based on my driving habits for local driving. In 15 months I only ever L2 charged once as an experiment to test home charging with the mobile connector. The EPA rating on the M S is 402 miles. But if I calculate the 80% SOC to 100% it gives me 423 miles range. There has been no Battery degradation in 15 months. In fact it appears I have gained range but much of my driving is indeed local so I do get much regenerative braking and average 225 WH/mile. Also, I don't speed but do drive the speed limit.
This simmer I plan to follow the "keep plugged in" at 80% just to see how the phantom power drain is since in this warm climate the Cabin Overheat is running and the Sentry is usually on. Plugging in will power those features off the house power.
I should also add that I have two NEMA 14-50 sockets so I can charge the Y and the S at the same time. I'll give priority to my wife with the Y since she will put many more miles on the Y than I will with the S. Tesla is wonderful because unlike the Leaf, I can set each car's L2 charging current so I don't exceed the maximum 14-50 circuit. Both outlets are on the same circuit.
I also plan to do many more road trips with the M S now that COVID is freeing us from the restrictions. I feel lucky the S has free Supercharging and I plan to take advantage of that.
Couple of points-
EV's in the colder climates should be plugged in all the time when not driving to prevent battery heater phantom drain, but in the south where the temperatures never require heaters, it is less important.
People who drive short trips several times a week shouldn't need to maintain their EV's with 80-90% SOC every day.
In the case of our 2019 Nissan Leaf, the range dictated we charge up every day to full 100% to make the next day's round trip plus some about town driving. That is now replaced with the M Y LR . My wife will now go 2 days of round trips plus some about town driving before reaching 30% SOC. Then she will charge up to 90% for the next days travel.
My Model S has been on an entirely different plan. It has free SC so I take advantage of that and let it go to 20% SOC and then DC Supercharge to 80%. I do this about 2 times a month based on my driving habits for local driving. In 15 months I only ever L2 charged once as an experiment to test home charging with the mobile connector. The EPA rating on the M S is 402 miles. But if I calculate the 80% SOC to 100% it gives me 423 miles range. There has been no Battery degradation in 15 months. In fact it appears I have gained range but much of my driving is indeed local so I do get much regenerative braking and average 225 WH/mile. Also, I don't speed but do drive the speed limit.
This simmer I plan to follow the "keep plugged in" at 80% just to see how the phantom power drain is since in this warm climate the Cabin Overheat is running and the Sentry is usually on. Plugging in will power those features off the house power.
I should also add that I have two NEMA 14-50 sockets so I can charge the Y and the S at the same time. I'll give priority to my wife with the Y since she will put many more miles on the Y than I will with the S. Tesla is wonderful because unlike the Leaf, I can set each car's L2 charging current so I don't exceed the maximum 14-50 circuit. Both outlets are on the same circuit.
I also plan to do many more road trips with the M S now that COVID is freeing us from the restrictions. I feel lucky the S has free Supercharging and I plan to take advantage of that.
Tesla vehicles (unlike some other EVs and plug-in hybrid vehicles) do not automatically warm the battery pack when plugged in, not charging. The Tesla vehicle will incrementally warm the battery pack. When charging the Tesla vehicle warms the battery pack to 10C (50F). For preconditioning the vehicle (battery and passenger cabin) the battery pack will be warmed to 20C (68F). For optimal charging at a Supercharger the Tesla vehicle will warm the battery pack when on route to the Supercharger until the battery pack temperature reaches an optimal 46C (114F). If you set up Scheduled Departure then the Tesla vehicle will start preconditioning (including warming the battery pack as required) about 20 to 30 minutes prior to the Scheduled Departure time.
Normally cold temperatures will not damage the battery pack unless below -30C (-23F). The downside of cold battery pack under typical winter conditions is power will be reduced, there can be no charging or regenerative braking available until the battery has been warmed.
My 2017 Chevrolet Volt would automatically maintain the temperature of the Volt's battery pack when plugged in (in winter keeping the battery pack temperature above 32F.) I believe that the reason that Tesla does not automatically warm the battery pack is to save energy (even grid energy) as the Tesla vehicle has no information about the next time the vehicle will be driven unless you have setup Scheduled Departure. In colder climates the Chevrolet Volt's battery heating routine could cost $0.25 to $0.50 or more per day in electricity even when the Volt is not being driven. You could prevent the Volt from continuously maintaining the temperature of the battery pack by unplugging the charging cable.
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Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
Good point, yet that is precisely the reason I don't keep it plugged in. I want to be able to know how much resting energy it is using. When I put in my energy monitoring sensors into the panel, I will likely change that method.
TravelFree
Active Member
You can add some 3rd party software to keep track of your phantom drain and what it cost you all automatic. I use TeslaFi which costs $50 a year subscription. Amazing the data it logs for me automatically. There are others too that are probably just as good.
Probably just gonna echo what a lot of other folks have said:
1) I usually charge to 75% in the spring/summer/fall, and 80% (or 85%) in the winter, to keep that battery close(er) to 50% for most of it's lifetime...
2) I live in a more rural-ish part of Pennsylvania. If I take the tesla to work, I have a ~45 mile drive round-trip (without errands). If my wife takes it, her round trip is closer to 70 miles (without errands). We have 2 kids, so "errands" sometimes means extra-curricular activities for the kids. So we sometimes use lots (100+ miles) of range just as part of our "normal (scheduled) Tuesday life."
3) So I pretty much charge almost every time I come home.
3A) It's way easier/more convenient to charge my Tesla than it was to stop and put gas in my old ICE car. I have the tesla wall charger installed in my garage, next to the door into my house... it doesn't take *much* more time and effort to plug in my car than it does my phone... That's one of the many advantages to having this car...
3B) *BUT*, if I need more charge than is in the battery when I need to use the car, I don't live near a supercharger (30+ minute minimum), and even supercharging isn't comparable to pouring 400+miles worth of range into your car in under 10 minutes... the infrastructure just isn't there yet to *just get going* with less than I need and get fuel while I go (like a gas station). I think it will be some day (soon). But today, I have an easy work around - I take 10 seconds and plug my car in almost every time I take it out.... then it's always got enough charge on it to take it wherever I need to go.
1) I usually charge to 75% in the spring/summer/fall, and 80% (or 85%) in the winter, to keep that battery close(er) to 50% for most of it's lifetime...
2) I live in a more rural-ish part of Pennsylvania. If I take the tesla to work, I have a ~45 mile drive round-trip (without errands). If my wife takes it, her round trip is closer to 70 miles (without errands). We have 2 kids, so "errands" sometimes means extra-curricular activities for the kids. So we sometimes use lots (100+ miles) of range just as part of our "normal (scheduled) Tuesday life."
3) So I pretty much charge almost every time I come home.
3A) It's way easier/more convenient to charge my Tesla than it was to stop and put gas in my old ICE car. I have the tesla wall charger installed in my garage, next to the door into my house... it doesn't take *much* more time and effort to plug in my car than it does my phone... That's one of the many advantages to having this car...
3B) *BUT*, if I need more charge than is in the battery when I need to use the car, I don't live near a supercharger (30+ minute minimum), and even supercharging isn't comparable to pouring 400+miles worth of range into your car in under 10 minutes... the infrastructure just isn't there yet to *just get going* with less than I need and get fuel while I go (like a gas station). I think it will be some day (soon). But today, I have an easy work around - I take 10 seconds and plug my car in almost every time I take it out.... then it's always got enough charge on it to take it wherever I need to go.
Usually nothing happens. What could happen is that a close by lightning strike creates a voltage spike of such magnitude that it overwhelms whatever protective devices are built into the EVSE or the vehicle and fries wiring, electronics. Lightning does not have to strike the electrical lines, high voltage from a nearby strike can can jump into the ground connection. As a result you could be without the use of the vehicle for weeks or months, ultimately the vehicle might be considered a total loss.
Anytime there is ground strike lightning with ~8 miles of your location it is a good practice to unplug expensive electronics including your Tesla vehicle. This includes Supercharging. You should never use a Supercharger during an electrical storm. Wait out the storm. Inside any vehicle is a safe place unless there is a tornado warning. (The metal on the vehicle acts as a Faraday cage, would help pass any lightning discharge safely to ground.)
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
yes, I use that app, but I have not found it to be able to understand idle drain accurately while my charger is constantly plugged in.
TravelFree
Active Member
Because there is no drain during charging. Some of the charging power is used to run the electronics and most is used to charge the battery. Once you reach the battery charging stop % then the plugged in L2 charger just powers the electronics to maintain the % battery setting.
Silicon Desert
Well-Known Member
I'm going to need some more explaining about what is meant by "powers the electronics to maintain the % battery setting".
In my experience and observation, when the car reaches its target charge battery %, the EVSE stops supplying any grid power until such a time that the battery % drops low enough to require another round of battery charging to bring it back up to its target, (And it will in fact drop while plugged in.) Another scenario where the EVSE will resume supplying power after charging is complete is if a cabin/battery preconditioning command is given.
So what are these "electronics" that are supposedly continually powered with grid energy after charging is complete?
TravelFree
Active Member
The electronics runs off the 12 volt battery, not the high voltage battery. The electronics that has a small drain on the 12 volt battery are the systems that secure the car, locks, sensors, and radio receivers for your remotes among others while the car is parked and locked. As the 12 volt battery is drained from these devices, it has to be recharged by the HV source (through a 12v regulator) which is being charged by your EVSE which will maintain the HV battery at a set % of maximum. So, while the EVSE doesn't run the electronics and other low voltage devices directly it does draw power from the HV battery that will be kept to the % you set it at. If the HV battery is not plugged in for an extended period of time the drain is said to be about 1% per day as the HV battery replenishes the 12v battery to run the electronics etc.
If you install 24 hour monitoring software you can see these times when the EVSE replenishes the HV battery that is drained to the set %. All this is why Tesla wants you to keep your car plugged in when you won't be using the car for extended periods of time to avoid the 12v battery from eventually going dead which can ruin it.
If you leave the car not plugged in, to prevent the HV battery from being drained it quits recharging the 12v battery when the HV is below a certain %, Then the 12v battery will be drained. When that happens you can't unlock the car. There is a port in the front bumper you can open which you can apply 12v to open the Frunk. Then you can gain access to the 12v battery and charge it up enough to unlock the car, or if necessary replace it.
I suggest you read your manual as this stuff is explained.
Tesla is one vehicle where you really do need to RTFM.... And probably a few times over the first few months of ownership.
Puma2020
Member
Yes. Perhaps we should start a topic on how many times you have read it, cover to cover. I believe I'm at 3 times cover to cover and many other times searching for something specific.
JohnInSanDiego
Member
Ive got two Teslas in the garage. Both stay plugged in overnight for a few reasons:
- They charge at $0.09 KwH overnight
- I believe that there is some inherent value to having a "full tank" every day. Mostly because I hated having to "stop for gas" in my old car.
- In the event of an emergency or lengthy outage, I want to have two fully (85-90%) charged cars available when needed.
I used to be a believer in plugged in every night. But appears the BMS will only get readings of the battery a high SoC. Since knowing that, I've now made it a point to pick a couple of days during the week where I let the car purposely sit overnight at home with a low to medium SoC (20 to 60%). The idea is that the BMS needs to take readings low, med, high to properly gauge the health of the battery.. and it will only take those readings when the car has been sleeping for at least 4 hours.
Ironically I mainly use regular ass 110V for most of my charging. I dont drive over 30 miles most days and can easily fill up the tank using the slowest charging method. I do plan to get the wall charger installed, already purchased it.. just still on the fence on should I do it myself or pay some electrician a $1000 to run some 6/3 romex and install a 60A breaker. I can also L2 charge using the 30A dryer outlet as its in our mudroom and sits on the opposite side of the garage wall. I generally do this only in 'emergencies' (like a long road trip the next day) where I need to fill the battery completely in 6-8 hours.
Ironically I mainly use regular ass 110V for most of my charging. I dont drive over 30 miles most days and can easily fill up the tank using the slowest charging method. I do plan to get the wall charger installed, already purchased it.. just still on the fence on should I do it myself or pay some electrician a $1000 to run some 6/3 romex and install a 60A breaker. I can also L2 charge using the 30A dryer outlet as its in our mudroom and sits on the opposite side of the garage wall. I generally do this only in 'emergencies' (like a long road trip the next day) where I need to fill the battery completely in 6-8 hours.
every night in the garage, using mobile charger with nema 14-50 plugged in. Set to 75%. Only higher if heading out of town (which isnt that often)
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