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Charging in the Netherlands

Discussion in 'Europe' started by r-p, Dec 26, 2011.

  1. r-p

    r-p New Member

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    Hi all,

    I was looking for info on charging my Tesla (ahem, chances of me actually getting a Model S are slim to none, but one can dream...).

    I have a 35A single phase connection.
    I *may* move to a house with a 3x63A connection which I will downgrade to 3x25A (saves me 600€ a year or so in fixed cost!!!) combined with an intelligent switch that holds the electrical heating elements (10kW?) from switching ON when I draw too much current (house has earth-warmth-compressor pump for warming/cooling and no natural gas-connection, so everything, including cooking (up to ~10kW) is done with electricity).

    So what are my options? 1x16A charging in my current house is about it, and haven't read about a multiphase charger I think. Or would the dual-charger in the Model S run on two different phases?


    And to all of you that are Dutch and planning to buy a Model S: any info on the roadtax exemption for the Model S? As it stands now, this will be over in 2015. Unless you're a millionaire with money to burn, this is something extremely important to know when doing such a (in my case certainly) once-in-a-life time investment. But the Dutch government will not give you that certainty...:crying:

    (Not that I expect anything constructive from my government after being stiffed by them for part of the subsidies in my first solarpanel system... Hence me buying a system without any subsidies or interference from them now. (Total now exceeds 5kWp :love:))
     
  2. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Are you planning on buying the Model S on your company or privately?

    With 3x25A your max will be 1x16A if the Model S doesn't support 3-phase charging. At this moment I'm still assuming Tesla will support 3-phase charging so I can charge my Model S with at least 3x16A (I have 3x40A) at home.
     
  3. r-p

    r-p New Member

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    Hello Widodh,

    Thanks for your answer. It would be a private car.

    If you don't mind me asking, you know what I am on about when saying 3x25A will save me (or you) some 600€ a year?

    You couldn't get away with 3x25A? (E.g. because it is a business connection?).

    Regards,
    R-P
     
  4. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Buying a Model S as a business car is currently the best idea. There are a lot of tax incentives which save you a lot of money.

    I know what you are saying about the 'vastrecht', but it's indeed a business connection.
     
  5. Fuzzylogic

    Fuzzylogic EU Sport 359 & S94

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    I currently charge my roadster at 26A from a 3x25A connection. Works fine.
    I designed my own EVSE (charger interface) which reduces the amount of current the roadster get's when i switch on the water cooker for example.

    3x16A would be perfect for Model S, don't think it needs more then 10Kw when charging at home. But ofcourse the car needs 3 phase in order for that to work, if it doesnt support it, 26A will be slow.. too slow i'm afraid.
     
  6. raymond

    raymond Member

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    I think the cheapest option here is to go for a 10kW 400V->240V transformer and draw 23A from two phases (at 240V each) giving 10kW. It's no three-phase charging, but it's 1.73 times faster than single-phase charging and nicely maxes out at 10kW. It may not even be such a bad idea to keep the third phase separate for your water cooker/dishwasher/etc.

    But since you've designed your own EVSE you must know much more about this than I do (I'm a software guy), so please point our the error(s) in my reasoning (or, of course, hail me as a genius!)
     
  7. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    You should productise this.
     
  8. raymond

    raymond Member

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    How does this work? My understanding was that the pilot signal from the charger declares how many amps are available and then the Roadster limits the amount of current it draws based on that. Do you reduce the voltage when you turn on the water cooker? Does this involve an AC/AC transformer?

    I would be very interested to read more on this!
     
  9. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    I'd expect it's changing the pilot signal and the car responds mid charge. Can someone confirm?
     
  10. Fuzzylogic

    Fuzzylogic EU Sport 359 & S94

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    It works like this:

    When you plug in the cable from the roadster, the EVSE sends a pilot signal to the Car, this pilot signal tells the roadster it can draw (in my case) Max 26A from the mains.
    Then the charging starts, the Max current is set by the charger in the car to 26A.
    By now varying the pilot signal you can change the current the roadster will draw, the car will respond to this signal within 5 seconds.

    I use a kWh meter, with pulse output on the same phase as the roadster is on. On this phase there are a few other household items like the water cooker.
    Let's say the water cooker is on, and draws 6A , Car is charging and draws 26A.

    The pulses from the kWh meter tell the EVSE that currently 32Amps are drawn, that's 6 Amps too much.
    So as soon as the current on the phase goes above 26A, the pilot signal to the roadster will change, and tell the roadster to draw 26-6=20 Amps instead.

    Once the water cooker switches off, the current to the roadster will automatically change to 26A again.
     
  11. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Nice! Which one are you using as a kWh meter? I'm using those from Finder ( 3 fase energieteller 65 A, LCD - Wissel-, draaistroomteller - Conrad Electronic )

    I'm just counting the kWh's now, but I should be able to do the same, shouldn't I? I have 3x40A, but I want to limit the car to 32A. When my electric cooker goes on, or my oven, boiler the 40A is probably not enough.
     
  12. Adm

    Adm Active Member

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    I am pretty sure the LoLoo of the New Motion uses the same concept, but only at 230V/16A.
     
  13. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I guess that actually might be a good solution for the TS.

    Otherwise, try contacting EV-Box, they are working on these kinds of things as well. They might have a EVSE which variates the amperage based on the availability.
     
  14. Adm

    Adm Active Member

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    I've got a 400V/16A charger (Easy Box, RWE Mobility) up and running at my antiques store. Now all I need is an EV that can use all 3 phases... Next year I hope...
     
  15. Eberhard

    Eberhard #421 Model S #S32

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    give your hope. tesla will only do, if they are forced to do it.
    by law or simple: if they cannot sell in europe without it
     
  16. Fuzzylogic

    Fuzzylogic EU Sport 359 & S94

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    I'm using a EM10 meter from Carlo Gavazzi it has a pulse output, 1000 pulses /kWh.
    I noticed your meter has a Mbus, that should make it even easier to use.

    But you still need a EVSE which can use this information, at the moment i think that building it yourself is the only option.
    (maybe the DIY Home EVSE project can be altered to read the Mbus data?)
     
  17. raymond

    raymond Member

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    Does this mean the energy company lets you draw 32 Amps on a 26 Amp connection for those five seconds? What exactly are the ratings for the fuses on a 3x25A connection? Did you replace the "client-side" 25A fuse with something bigger/slower than normal?
     
  18. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    The main fuses are C-rated, so C25. They are kind of slow and you can draw over 25A for a couple of minutes before they trip.
     
  19. Adm

    Adm Active Member

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    I've counted 22 CHAdeMO fast chargers so far and many more to follow.

    http://maps.google.nl/maps/ms?msid=208148672194115238704.0004b1cd63383f270f266&msa=0&ll=52.241256,5.240479&spn=1.79625,4.938354

    Private parties were give the opportunity to show interest to place chargers on freeway parking spaces and at gas stations. 6 parties have shown interest to place 459 chargers. No word if that will be all fast chargers. Of course showing interest doesn't mean they will a be placed... and if so when?
     
  20. Adm

    Adm Active Member

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    I found the first company that will place large quantities of fast chargers in the Netherlands. They claim they will place 250 fast chargers in the Netherlands along free- and highways, no 2 chargers more than 30km (19mi) apart.
    It should be possible to pay per charge or get a subscription at a fixed rate for unlimited charging.
    http://www.fastned.nl/FastNed/Wat_is_FastNed.html

    droppedImage.jpg
     

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