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charging in the uk

Discussion in 'The UK and Ireland' started by Daniel 74, Nov 14, 2013.

  1. Ray

    Ray Model S res# 1524

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    Nov 3, 2012
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    521
    Location:
    Dordrecht
    In the meanwhile I had a confirmation of ESB that they have restart the chargingpoints and they both have to work. Now we have arrived in Ardara, in the neighboorhood there are 2 chargingpoints both are 22 kW. Now we are fully charged and ready to go to Belfast tomorrow.

    already have made about 1800 km (1100 Miles) in UK and Ireland. Average use is 208 Wh/km. In the Netherlands my average is 232 Wh/km. Just because we can drive faster for long periodes I think.
     
  2. skn

    skn Member

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    Amsterdam
    Nice. If the roads were a bit flatter in UK like in NL, the avg could have been lower still I guess. :)
     
  3. Ray

    Ray Model S res# 1524

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    Nov 3, 2012
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    SKN I don't think so, because if you had flat roads like us you would drive harder, so uses a lot of more Energy. Today we are in Wark (Scotland) and we drove through the hills of the lowlands, my average now for today is 328 Wh/mi (205 Wh/km)
     
  4. Rluner

    Rluner Member

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    Apr 23, 2014
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    Location:
    North West UK
    I'm due to take delivery of my S85 in Dec, however reading these forums I'm actually a bit confused about charging rates, primarily on Ecotricty network of fast chargers.

    Why when we plug into the 43kw 63amp side do we only receive 11kw ? ( I only ordered a single charger)

    My my friend has a leaf and regularly uses the other side, 50kw 125amps I think, and I realise his battery is a third the size of ours, but I believed that if I plugged into 43kw 63 amps I would get just under half his rate of charge, however as my batteries are three times bigger I expected the rate to stay high for six times ( 3x bigger batteries, half speed) longer before reducing down.

    But users are saying I will get 11kw. What sort of miles in an hour will this give to a low battery please if correct.

    At home I'm getting a 32amp charger, will this be 6.6 kW? Ie half again the speed of the above 11kw?
     
  5. GSP

    GSP Member

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    The 43kW 63 Amp side is 3-phase A/C. Your single 11 kW 3-phase on-board charger will convert to DC to charge the battery at about 30 mph.

    The Leaf can use the CHAdeMo 50 kW 125 Amp DC fast charger. This off-board charger supplies DC current directly to the battery, bypassing the on board charger. This allows charging at about 150 mph.

    When Tesla's "coming soon" CHAdeMO adapter finally arrives, you can buy one and charge at 150 mph also. Tesla plans to charge $1000 for it in the states.

    Besides the CHAdeMo adapter, the Model S can also bypass its on-board charger(s) to use the free (pre-paid) a Tesla Superchargers. These off-board DC fast chargers supply up to 330 Amps and can charge at over 300 mph.

    GSP
     
  6. arg

    arg Supporting Member

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    Yes, if you have a single charger. The charger is the limiting factor here.

    If you had the (not yet available) CHAdeMO adapter you could plug in to the other side and charge at the same initial speed as the Leaf, and indeed you would stay at full speed much longer than the Leaf before reducing down, due to the bigger battery.

    But reducing down isn't the issue here. No Model S can draw the full 43kW from the AC side, because it doesn't have a sufficiently large on-board charger. A dual-charger Model S can draw 22kW, single charger 11kW.

    This is the big difference between AC charging and DC charging. With AC charging, the charger is in the car, and you are limited by that. With DC charging (CHAdeMO, SuperCharger etc.), the charger is in the charging station. "reducing down" can in theory occur in either case - but in practice, AC charging is sufficiently slow in the first place that it doesn't need to reduce down in normal circumstances.

    A shade over 30. Dual chargers would give you double that.

    If it's really 32amp, that's 32*230 = 7.36kW. If it's a Chargemaster unit, they are 30A, so 6.9kW (assuming typical mains voltage - if your voltage happens to be higher/lower than average, you do correspondingly better/worse). So about 20mph.

    In practice, that's plenty for overnight charging: although it's notionally about 12 hours for a full charge, unless you have a very unusual lifestyle you will rarely come home having run the car down to exactly zero, eat/sleep for less than 12 hours, and depart again on a day where you need a full charge.

    Where it is less adequate is for fast-turnaround - perhaps you've been driving on business during the day, come home, and want to depart for a weekend away with a full charge. Standard home chargepoint won't achieve that. Also an issue is if you want to keep the car at (say) 80% charge and quickly top up to a 100% charge when you unexpectedly want to make a long trip (especially in winter when you will be pre-heating the car at the same time and the heating takes most of that 7kW).

    However, unless you happen to have a 3-phase supply at home, 7kW is the best you are going to get, and for most people it's OK.
     
  7. mgboyes

    mgboyes Member

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    Apr 16, 2014
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    Location:
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    The key thing to understand here is that all mains electricity is AC, but all batteries are charged using DC. This means that whenever your car charges there needs to be a rectifier ("charger" in general language) converting from AC to DC.

    The rectifier can be located inside the car (in which case AC is delivered through the charging cable and then rectified to DC to charge the battery) or outside the car (in which case DC is delivered through the charging cable and straight into the battery, bypassing the onboard chargers).

    When you choose single or dual chargers for your car you're choosing between having a single or dual rectifier unit inside the car. Each of these units can convert 11kW of power from AC to DC, so a single charger Model S can charge from an AC power source at up to 11kW (30mph), and a dual charger Model S can charge from an AC power source at up to 22kW (60mph).

    Ecotricity's AC charging points actually go up to 43kW but the Model S can't rectify that much AC power in any configuration; it can only do 11kW or 22kW. Similarly a standard home charging point will supply only 7kW whatever is plugged into it, so both single and dual charger equipped cars will charge at the same rate from it (around 20mph).

    With DC charging the rectifiers are located outside the car, and so can be much bigger. This means things can be much more rapid, because the capacity of the car's onboard chargers isn't relevant. CHAdeMO charge points in the UK are typically 50kW (135mph) and Superchargers are 120kW (325mph, though the car can only charge at this very high rate when its battery is low; the rate slows down as the battery fills).

    The great challenge for the Model S in the UK today is that DC charging options haven't really arrived yet. The only superchargers are in central London and Birmingham, and without an adaptor we can't yet use CHAdeMO chargers. Both of these will change in the next few months, we hope. By December I'd be hopeful that the situation will have changed quite a bit.

    But today with a single charger you're limited to 30mph unless you happen to be in the middle of Birmingham or London.

    All that said, in 12 weeks of owning the car I can think of only one journey where being limited to 30mph charging would have made any difference (and it would only have delayed me by about 20 minutes) simply because the car has such a large range to start with.
     

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