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Charging Infrastructure

Discussion in 'North America' started by vfx, Oct 14, 2009.

  1. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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  2. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #2 vfx, Oct 14, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
    More on Infrastructure.

    Ecotality's eTec
    Spotlight on EV Charging Infrastructure Company eTec - All Cars Electric

    Coulomb
    A Car Charging Infrastructure Takes Shape - Green Inc. Blog - NYTimes.com


    Nissan Leaf, eTec
    Scrambling to Prepare Charging Infrastructure for the Nissan LEAF - All Cars Electric
     
  3. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    Sound cars about to get plugged in | Northwest News - The News Tribune | Seattle-Tacoma News, Weather, Sports, Jobs, Homes and Cars | South Puget Sound's Destination
     
  4. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    Found by following links in the article above:

    Plug In America
    SB 626 Senate Bill - CHAPTERED

    For example:
     
  5. vfx

    vfx Well-Known Member

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    #8 vfx, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
    Scare, scare, scare and scare.
    How much do we spend each day on oil?
    Nobody asked for recovery of costs when everyone started buying Plasma TVs...

    The second half is more even but after all the above it's too little, too late.
     
  6. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    ^^^^
    Just sounds like a ploy for (more?) federal funds.
     
  7. dpeilow

    dpeilow Moderator

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    That sounds like BS if ever I heard it.
     
  8. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    Perhaps not entirely far fetched?

    R0908009 To Consider Alternative-Fueled Vehicle Tariffs, Infrastructure and Policies to Support Calfironia's Greenhouse Gas Emissions Reductions Goals


    Those line pole transformers tend to have the windings submersed in a large drum of oil. The oil evens out the temps and does have a rather slow warm-up/cool-down cycle.


    By the way, I have heard of some neighborhood transformers blowing out when groups of roadsters were charging. There will need to be some infrastructure upgrades to support roll-outs of more EVs.





     
  9. J in MN

    J in MN S60 P12635

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    #12 J in MN, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
    My house is one of six served by a 50 kVA mini pad transformer. There is a cable that runs from the transformer to a connection point across the street serving three houses. As part of my solar installation, and planning ahead for EVs, I upgraded my electrical service to 320 A. The cable from my meter to the connection point is now twice as thick as the cable to the transformer!

    Since my house is now all electric (ground source heat pump, ETS heater for backup during load control, etc), my peak winter nightime load is 27 kVA, or more than half of the transformer capacity. Add two EV's charging at 40 A, and that goes to 47 kVA. That leaves 600 VA for each of my 5 neighbours... :eek:
     
  10. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    Looks like there are more issues than we thought, hopefully it isn't TOO expensive and that some of the additional revenue from new demand from EVs will pay for some of these upgrades. Good to know this BEFORE the anti-plug-in crowd uses it for more fodder.
     
  11. AntronX

    AntronX Member

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    And they will. Better come up with some counter arguments now. To fix this, we will need smart grid. The transformer will have to tell your car how much current is OK to pull at any given moment. Eventually, as EV numbers grow, the impact will spread from distribution lines to transmission lines and eventually the power generating stations. I am pretty sure more generating capacity and transmission lines will be needed to meet this new and large demand. Utilities will have to control your car's charging current to make sure there is enough power for everyone. Oh, and no one will want to have more power lines and power stations built. This is going to be interesting...
     
  12. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    That sounds almost as if the utility companies are non-profit organizations. :)

    Ideally the smart grid will be smart enough to communicate with EV chargers (and hopefully even air conditioning units during summer days), to turn these off selectively when required to prevent a black out. In any case, the grid should be able to selectively turn off connections which draw more power than they have reserved for them, if really needed. However, in general, the utility companies should be happy about the additional demand (and hopefully cover it by utilizing the sinking costs of solar PV or wind power plants).

    Of course, the upside will be that we will eventually need fewer gas stations, tankers, etc, which will far outweigh such initial investments.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    This is sounding like cable modem.
    If you are the only customer in the neighborhood you get fast downloads.
    If all your neighbors have cable modem then the bandwidth gets shared and you have slower service.

    With Smart grid and more mass deployment you could get slower charging if your neighbors all get EVs too.
     
  14. AntronX

    AntronX Member

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    Additional demand that they do not have the supply for. Sinking costs of PV and wind are non existent.

    Except that utilities do not own tankers, gas stations...
     
  15. AntronX

    AntronX Member

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    Nice analogy. Electric grid today is like internet without the QoS. With smart grid you get slower charging rate and without it you get a blown fuse (or transformer).
     
  16. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    #19 stopcrazypp, Oct 27, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2009
    Kind of off topic but this kind of reminded me of this article: (I found it again after some hard looking)
    http://www.treehugger.com/files/2009/08/payback-dilemma-campus-climate.php
    Short summary:
    And other projects which don't pay back, don't have to pay back, for example:
    There is just some bizarre mentality that whenever we do "green" projects we always have to recover costs or it doesn't make sense, but when it is for luxury then it doesn't matter. We see it here, and we see it in cars too.
     
  17. Norbert

    Norbert TSLA will win

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    We'll need to think on a much larger scale. I believe those who say that it won't take much more than a decade until we will have a huge shift towards EVs. A lot of things will (need to) change, not just a few transformers. I expect that in 3-4 years, this will already be very obvious.
     

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