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Charging Model 3 via HPWC - "Voltage Too High"
- Thread starter zkmusa
- Start date
Interesting. Thanks for the info. When I had the issue, it appeared the Model 3 would ramp up to 275+ volts before stopping charging. I wonder if 269/270 is on the edge before the kill-switch is triggered. Either that, or maybe all of this was a software issue that Tesla corrected. I unfortunately do not live close to this charger to try again.
Even though I responded on the other thread, I feel this thread is really the correct one to continue this discussion so I'm only going to continue this here.
Originally Model 3 did not support 277v, that came from Tesla itself, but yours clearly does so that means something might have changed with the internal chargers for recent builds. When was your 3 built? This is a really interesting change, makes me wonder if newer S & X's have updated chargers that are more friendly for 277v charging.
(For those just tuning in, the internal chargers in S & X have over-volt protection at 283v. Above that the chargers will cut out to prevent damage. From what I read, but never personally experienced, resetting them actually involved a Service visit, they couldn't reset them remotely. When charging from 240v AC, 283v provides a huge amount of headroom for a voltage spike, but charging at 277v, there is only a tiny amount of headroom.)
eprosenx
Active Member
So I wonder if this is right on the cusp of tripping?
Or did they change something in the hardware on newer units?
Or did they change the limits in software/firmware?
Eliminating 277v charging from the HPWC is really goofy to me. 277v is exceedingly common in any decent size commercial building. You need less transformers, you spend less on wire, it is more efficient, etc...
Especially in parking garages with long wire runs higher voltage is great.
I have to assume that they decided 277v was too dangerous arc flash wise, or some cars they made did not support it well (the tripping issue), or it was too expensive component wise to build the chargers with sufficient isolation for the higher voltage.
Frankly though, they have created a mess. It sounds like from reports that these are not all that uncommon, so now you are playing roulette if you have a Model 3 as to if a given destination charger will work for you or not. Most folks will have no clue.
Tesla should publish info on which chargers are 277v. This would be trivial since they have telemetry from every Tesla on the road. They could just run a report.
cellogig
Model X..Model 3
Hey
I am back.
I posted under this thread few months past regarding 277v issues with the model 3.
My model 3 was built 01/18 time period.
I have tried recently to charge my vehicle again at a destination charger that has the hpwc.
It is now working.
The voltage gets up to 280 and then dips down to 278.
I raised the amp from 40 amp to 45 amp.
At one point my charging was 51 mi/hr.
It seems that there was a possible software update that allows me to use a hpwc charging spot.
My concern is though...am I playing roulette with this particular destination charger. Granted at one time there was a shut off if the charging was above 250v on the model 3. Now it is not there unless I reach 283v.
Also if I lower my amp setting back to 40amp will this lower the voltage coming into the car during charging?
I hope Tesla will tell us what destination Chargers still have the hpwc.
I am back.
I posted under this thread few months past regarding 277v issues with the model 3.
My model 3 was built 01/18 time period.
I have tried recently to charge my vehicle again at a destination charger that has the hpwc.
It is now working.
The voltage gets up to 280 and then dips down to 278.
I raised the amp from 40 amp to 45 amp.
At one point my charging was 51 mi/hr.
It seems that there was a possible software update that allows me to use a hpwc charging spot.
My concern is though...am I playing roulette with this particular destination charger. Granted at one time there was a shut off if the charging was above 250v on the model 3. Now it is not there unless I reach 283v.
Also if I lower my amp setting back to 40amp will this lower the voltage coming into the car during charging?
I hope Tesla will tell us what destination Chargers still have the hpwc.
Actually, lowering the amps will probably RAISE the voltage, which seems counterintuitive, but basically voltage drop through a conductor(like the ones getting to the HPWC, or the ones getting from the HPWC to your car) is proportional to the current flowing through it. If its a short line, or perhaps as a result of the constructor planning for lots of demand, there may be very little voltage loss, so you might not even be able to notice.
Since the onboard charger always ramps up from 0(pretty quickly, initially), you can't really rely on the current you are drawing to keep the voltage down.
Since the onboard charger always ramps up from 0(pretty quickly, initially), you can't really rely on the current you are drawing to keep the voltage down.
eprosenx
Active Member
I really wish Tesla would give us official documentation on what is actually supported or not. This guessing thing is not a good way to roll especially if it means ending up somewhere you can’t charge or even worse causing your car to need to go in for service to reset.
I am dead curious what the issue is here. Obviously the insulation and such must be rated for it... The act of hooking it up and applying power seems like the dangerous part... If it is going to blow something up I figure it would happen whether you engage charging or not... (unless the car has its own contactor inside that only enagages after voltage is verified)?
I would totally charge at the max amps rate though. I am curious how fast you can make it go! Set a new record and post a picture please!
(as others said, drawing more amps will drag the voltage down if anything)
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Two things. First, that is the old version of the HPWC manual. If you go to the correct Tesla Manuals page, you will see the current manual removes all mention of 277v.
Second, the pic you posted said your car can handle up to 277v, & the max voltage of the HPWC is 250v.
Regardless it's moot, the current official manuals no longer have any mention of 277v.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That's the connector. Not the car. Since there's HPWCs out there on 277v it would be odd for the 3 to be unable to use some existing HPWCs... at least one 3 is clearly able to use 277v.
Yea things seem to have changed about 277v capability on Model 3. Regardless, the official word from Tesla as of now is that they support up to 240v charging with a max of 80amps (depending on your car).
Obviously some cars seem to work with higher voltages, the HPWC will work with higher voltages, but regardless of if it works, Tesla will not support these configurations even if they used to at some point.
As I mentioned before, I can't imagine there are very many 277v HPWC installations out in the wild. I wish they did officially support 277v, but they don't. I'd still use a 277v charger if I came across one.
/edit. It's like buying a stock 2.5ghz CPU to overclock. Some chips can go up 50%, some only 10%, regardless, Intel still sells it only as a 2.5ghz chip.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
Is it 'official' that the 3 does not support 277v? I thought that was still word of mouth from a tech or something.
The exchange I recall was something along the lines of 'We're aware of the issue'; I think it's possible that means there's a potential software fix and the 3 CAN use 277v.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
That's my point... I've not seen a 240v limit (or any voltage reference) in a 3 manual. Only a UMC or HPWC manual.
Obviously not 'official' but this makes sense based on what we've seen;
So it seems like nothing has changed physically from the HPWCs and onboard chargers. Tesla removed 277v from the manual to deter HPWCs from being installed on 277v lines to keep cars from faulting out at 282. Kinda wish they'd just added a warning instead because if you have 277v you can't use... your next option is likely to be 208v not 240v... BIG difference between 277v and 208v
And... while reference to 277v was removed from the manual... the HPWC clearly still supports 277v (physically). Would there ever be any reason other than a 277v connection for this configuration of the DIP switches? This is from the updated manual w/o 277 'support'.
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That's my point... I've not seen a 240v limit (or any voltage reference) in a 3 manual. Only a UMC or HPWC manual.
Obviously not 'official' but this makes sense based on what we've seen;
So it seems like nothing has changed physically from the HPWCs and onboard chargers. Tesla removed 277v from the manual to deter HPWCs from being installed on 277v lines to keep cars from faulting out at 282. Kinda wish they'd just added a warning instead because if you have 277v you can't use... your next option is likely to be 208v not 240v... BIG difference between 277v and 208v
Exactly. To cover their buts (and lower service costs to repair triggered chargers.)
Also, Tesla only technically "supports" the HPWC and UMC, so officially they max out at 250v. You probably could find a 277v j1772 somewhere, and it might work, but if it doesn't, that's not Tesla's problem.
nwdiver
Well-Known Member
I looked into that years ago. J1772 is a standard. Sadly it specifically does not support 277v. It would be interesting to see what would happen if a non-Tesla used a J-adapter... hmmm that might be what the DIP switches do... stop a J1772 car from closing the relay if the HPWC is connected to 277v.
