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charging only at supercharging stations bad for battery life?

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by Matthew049, Oct 20, 2012.

  1. Matthew049

    Matthew049 Member

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    ok, ive read thru some of the threads that charging every night is the best way to go but havent seen an answer to this specific question. i was thinking, what if you live near a supercharger? would it be ok to just supercharge a few times per week (or everyday even) and save $ on your electricity bill?? will this greatly reduce battery life?? thx,
     
  2. alexkiritz

    alexkiritz Member

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    Not so much. But, it would be a huge waste of time and not save you much money at all. Charging an electric car is very cheap. They are also placing them to discourage this.
     
  3. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    As Model S's become more prevalent consider the impact of blocking a Supercharger spot. Potentially unhelpful to people on an overnight road trip.
     
  4. strider

    strider Active Member

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    My 50-mile commute costs $0.96. Don't be cheap, leave SC spots for people on actual trips.
     
  5. ElSupreme

    ElSupreme Model S 03182

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    At my summer peak electricity rates it will cost me about $7.50-$8.00 to fill an entire 85kWh pack. Driving somewhere and waiting an hour or so isn't worth $8.00 to me. One of the main reasons I want this car is not to have to drive to a gas station (I always fill up en route but still it sucks), and although the Supercharger site won't have gas smell it will still be a hassle.
     
  6. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    That's why Elon's next company needs to be Mr. Fusion.
     
  7. ggr

    ggr Roadster R80 537, SigS P85 29

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    I think people don't realize just what an imposition it is, to have to go somewhere to refuel. "It's always full in the morning!" -- not just a slogan, a way of life!
     
  8. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    Nobody actually answered his question. The topic starter is asking for the hypothetical situation where he only chargers at a Supercharger when he needs to and leave the Model S unplugged the rest of the time.

    What would that do to the battery? Will it impact the life very much? Is is true that Tesla says you can SC as much as you want and it won't hurt the battery?

    I get the point of keeping a SC slot free for a fellow traveler who might be in need of juice, but that is not the question in this case.
     
  9. Discoducky

    Discoducky Active Member

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    No ill affects, SC as much as you want, it's in the verbiage somewhere, too lazy this morning to look it up.
     
  10. abasile

    abasile Independent Software Eng.

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    This seems like a fair question for someone without access to Level 2 charging where they live, assuming there is a Supercharger that's not too far out of their way.
     
  11. Matthew049

    Matthew049 Member

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    THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

    to most everyone else... NO **** about the cost and space and blah blah blah. WTF...

    - - - Updated - - -

    thank you, DD. i'll take your word for it.

    OUT.
     
  12. ckessel

    ckessel Active Member

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    What about battery balancing? I thought that was one of things that happens on a longer (non-SC) charge cycle.
     
  13. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I still wonder about this. In general, quick charging can cause cell heating which can cause accelerated cell degradation.

    For instance, see this:
    http://www.americas.fujielectric.com/sites/default/files/Fuji%20Electric%20-%20DC%20Quick%20Charging%20in%20North%20America%208-13-12.pdf
    But Tesla Model S has:

    • Largest pack capacity in the industry.
    • Active cooling system.
    • Recent cell chemistry update.

    So, maybe they have overcome issues that can affect other EVs?

    I think this is a very valid question / concern, so hopefully Tesla is very clear if they think it is OK to use lots of Supercharging or not.

    Also, the answer for 60kWh pack could be different for 85kWh pack.
     
  14. widodh

    widodh Model S R231 EU

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    I think size does matter.

    With 85kWh you are looking at about 1C as the charge rate.

    A Nissan Leaf has a 22kWh battery and gets charged with 50kW, so that is 2C. I assume that 2C puts much more stress on the pack then 1C does. Not to mention the lack of active cooling in the Leaf's pack.
     
  15. markb1

    markb1 Active Member

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    I suspect they will probably reduce the wattage when supercharging the 60kWh pack, but I don't think they've really said.
     
  16. donauker

    donauker Member

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    I think they actually have as good as said in their recent email. See this excerpt.
    They are stating half a charge in half an hour and are listing the miles specifically for the 85 kWh battery.
     
  17. strider

    strider Active Member

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    Yes, this was done to death in the SC announcement thread. Because the car and SC are constantly communicating, the car will tell the SC to ramp down if the temp starts to climb and as the charge level rises. The car will protect itself and keep the batteries cool no matter what charge method is being used. You can SC as much as you want.
     
  18. TEG

    TEG TMC Moderator

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    I wonder how much it slows down as you near really high SoC?
    I think with most (if not all) Li-Ion chemistries the amount of heat generated in the cell gets more significant as the cell nears full.
    Lots of QC time quotes are like "to 80%" or "to 90%". If you insist on getting to 100% full I wonder if that last few % take a while...?
     
  19. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    That may be, but Tesla doesn't want you hogging the Supercharger. It's meant for road trippers. Hopefully if the Superchargers get "abused" by locals they'll put some HPCs or J1772s at the site.
     
  20. Zzzz...

    Zzzz... Member

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    Take a look at this pdf. Going from 1C to 2C barely affect anything. Temperature on the other hand do affect battery life. And so do SOC.

    So supercharging should have negligible effect on battery.
     

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