Charging software limited pack to 100%?

[martinsfsu]

I've read dozens of threads covering this topic but none contain a clear answer with any evidence.

All MS as of early 2019 have the 100kWh battery pack, with the Standard Range having software limitation set to 75kWh.
So theoretically, if a Standard Range 75kWh pack is charged to "100%", it's actually using about 75% of the full pack, not counting any built in buffer.

I've read that regen may give away the answer, but that seems irrelevant since all charging, regen/SC/home, would also have the same software limitation.
I was only able to charge to 99% before the SC stopped, and regen came back within 5min of driving when SOC hit 97%, though the yellow dash means it was not a full regen until about 95%

Does anyone have an official answer or an article that can answer this question with any authority? Lots of anecdotal stories, but nothing solid that I've been able to find.

For reference this is for a 2019 Raven Standard Range with 2,700 miles, and software limitation behavior may have changed over the years.

 

[ucmndd]

Your raven has an actual 75kwh battery. It is not software limited. You can confirm this yourself by looking at the battery sticker in the passenger side front wheel well.

 

[mswlogo]

Your raven has an actual 75kwh battery. It is not software limited. You can confirm this yourself by looking at the battery sticker in the passenger side front wheel well.

I would think the curb weight would be significantly different too.

 

[ucmndd]

I would think the curb weight would be significantly different too.

And indeed it was... about 200 pounds as I recall.

 

[martinsfsu]

Tesla stopped making the 75kwh battery pack earlier this year, several articles point this out:

Tesla launches new cheaper Model S and Model X with software-limited battery pack - Electrek

Tesla is discontinuing 75 kWh battery pack for Model S and Model X - Electrek

So just about every 2019 MS has the 100kwh physical pack regardless of the range.

And my ranger tech assured me that while the battery pack label by the wheel says "75" it really is 100. My guess is the weight difference is the inverter as the 100kwh MS do indeed charge faster (150kw) than my standard range (125kw).

 

[ucmndd]

Tesla stopped making the 75kwh battery pack earlier this year, several articles point this out:

Tesla launches new cheaper Model S and Model X with software-limited battery pack - Electrek

Tesla is discontinuing 75 kWh battery pack for Model S and Model X - Electrek

So just about every 2019 MS has the 100kwh physical pack regardless of the range.

And my ranger tech assured me that while the battery pack label by the wheel says "75" it really is 100. My guess is the weight difference is the inverter as the 100kwh MS do indeed charge faster (150kw) than my standard range (125kw).

Your ranger is blowing smoke. Tesla did not discontinue 75kwh batteries - they’ve been continuously available on inventory cars. There may have been a very brief period where Tesla was selling software limited 100s with reduced range, but that petered out extremely quickly and nobody has ever documented a car configured in this way.

There is zero chance that Tesla is putting 75kwh stickers (with identical part numbers) on 100kwh batteries. If the sticker says 75 it’s absolutely a 75.

You have a 75kwh battery. The inverter has nothing to do with charging - the real 100 supercharges faster because it’s 400 volts (vs the 75s 350) and has more cells.

 

[martinsfsu]

Your ranger is blowing smoke. Tesla did not discontinue 75kwh batteries - they’ve been continuously available on inventory cars. There may have been a very brief period where Tesla was selling software limited 100s with reduced range, but that petered out extremely quickly and nobody has ever documented a car configured in this way.

There is zero chance that Tesla is putting 75kwh stickers (with identical part numbers) on 100kwh batteries. If the sticker says 75 it’s absolutely a 75.

You have a 75kwh battery. The inverter has nothing to do with charging - the real 100 supercharges faster because it’s 400 volts (vs the 75s 350) and has more cells.

You're right, the inventor should be a none issue with SC.
I'm not referring to inventory but production models. So the articles and my technician are all wrong? As I said in my original post, I'm still waiting for some evidence. I don't see why built-in software limitation wouldn't result in a separate part number.

Here is a third article:
More On The Return Of Tesla's Software-Limited Battery Pack Scheme
"The company recently discontinued the 75 kWh versions of Models S and Model X, ..."
"It allows Tesla to streamline production by building only a single (100 kWh) battery pack for Models S and X..."

Another:
Tesla Discontinues 75 kWh Battery For Model S & Model X Effective January 13 | CleanTechnica
"Tesla has now decided to discontinue the 75 kWh battery for its Model S sedan and Model X SUV as of January 13"
Article includes a tweet from Elon himself "Starting on Monday, Tesla will no longer be taking orders for the 75 kWh version of the Model S & X. If you’d like that version, please order by Sunday night at Electric Cars, Solar Panels & Clean Energy Storage | Tesla"

Article in DIgital Trends:
Tesla to Discontinue 75-kWh Model S and Model X Electric Cars | Digital Trends
"Tesla will discontinue entry-level Model S and Model X cars with 75-kWh battery"

Given the name change, dropping 75 and 100, and replacing it with Standard Range and Long Range seems to make sense now if they both have the same physical battery.

In addition to the articles, this clip is from Wikipedia, which may not be the ultimate authority, but then again I don't see anything that disputes it:
Tesla Model S - Wikipedia

 

[ucmndd]

I’m not sure what else to tell you. Here are the definitive ways to know what battery you have in your car and whether or not it’s software limited:

1) the battery sticker. It really doesn’t get more clear than this.

2) Supercharging speed - if your standard range car is actually a software locked 100, you should expect to see DC charging speeds in the 20-30 kw range as the battery approaches “100%”. A battery actually approaching 100% SoC will taper down to a 1-2 kw trickle for the last couple percent.

3) Regen. The regen behavior you describe in your first post is exactly how a battery behaves when actually close to 100% charge. Software limited cars generally have shown full regen availability, even at 100%.

As I said, there was a very brief period where Tesla claimed to be selling software locked 100s as “standard range” cars, right after they made a big to-do about discontinuing the 75 battery. That said, I’ve never seen proof of a car actually delivered that way (i.e. 100kwh battery sticker in a “standard range” car).

In reality, the “75 will be discontinued” announcement was just the latest in a long line of demand levers Tesla regularly pulls to entice people into ordering, but ends up being a big nothing burger.

The battery sticker doesn’t lie. At least one other standard range Raven owner on here has also confirmed their car was indeed delivered with a real 75 battery.

 

[Marrus]

I've read dozens of threads covering this topic but none contain a clear answer with any evidence.

All MS as of early 2019 have the 100kWh battery pack, with the Standard Range having software limitation set to 75kWh.
So theoretically, if a Standard Range 75kWh pack is charged to "100%", it's actually using about 75% of the full pack, not counting any built in buffer.

I've read that regen may give away the answer, but that seems irrelevant since all charging, regen/SC/home, would also have the same software limitation.
I was only able to charge to 99% before the SC stopped, and regen came back within 5min of driving when SOC hit 97%, though the yellow dash means it was not a full regen until about 95%

Does anyone have an official answer or an article that can answer this question with any authority? Lots of anecdotal stories, but nothing solid that I've been able to find.

For reference this is for a 2019 Raven Standard Range with 2,700 miles, and software limitation behavior may have changed over the years.

Does your car charge very quick right up to 100 percent or does the last few percent take quite a while. My son had a software limited 75 and his battery would charge very quickly right up to the 100 percent

 

[martinsfsu]

The issue of battery pack is finally settled.

The Curb Weight of the 2019 "Standard Range" Model S is 4,883 lbs.
This is found ONLY in the Owner's Manual (p.176) and it is NOT the GVWR stamped on the tire pressure plate. GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, as in the maximum weight the car is designed to carry, including passengers and cargo.

Based on information from the owner's manual of my previous 2016 90D (p.174), the curb weight for the various trims are:
Curb Weight* - 60/70/75 4,469 lbs
Curb Weight* - 60D/70D/75D 4,647 lbs
Curb Weight* - 90D 4,736 lbs
Curb Weight* - P90D 4,841 lbs
Curb Weight* - 100D 4,883 lbs
Curb Weight* - P100D 4,941 lbs

It's an exact match with the 100D, which is confirmed with all the articles that point out packs smaller than 100D were discontinued in January 2019, and what I was told by the Ranger.

Case Closed.

 

[Marrus]

The issue of battery pack is finally settled.

The Curb Weight of the 2019 "Standard Range" Model S is 4,883 lbs.
This is found ONLY in the Owner's Manual (p.176) and it is NOT the GVWR stamped on the tire pressure plate. GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, as in the maximum weight the car is designed to carry, including passengers and cargo.

Based on information from the owner's manual of my previous 2016 90D (p.174), the curb weight for the various trims are:
Curb Weight* - 60/70/75 4,469 lbs
Curb Weight* - 60D/70D/75D 4,647 lbs
Curb Weight* - 90D 4,736 lbs
Curb Weight* - P90D 4,841 lbs
Curb Weight* - 100D 4,883 lbs
Curb Weight* - P100D 4,941 lbs

It's an exact match with the 100D, which is confirmed with all the articles that point out packs smaller than 100D were discontinued in January 2019, and what I was told by the Ranger.

Case Closed.

I know you say case closed but the best way to tell is if the car charges up to 100 percent quite quickly or if it just trickles for the last 10 minutes. A software locked battery charges the last 5% or so in just a few minutes at a Supercharger. There is a huge unmistakable difference in how quickly the software locked cars top off the battery. If it lingers at 99 percent for more than a couple minutes it’s not a locked 100 battery. Case Closed.

 

[N..8]

I know you say case closed but the best way to tell is if the car charges up to 100 percent quite quickly or if it just trickles for the last 10 minutes. A software locked battery charges the last 5% or so in just a few minutes at a Supercharger. There is a huge unmistakable difference in how quickly the software locked cars top off the battery. If it lingers at 99 percent for more than a couple minutes it’s not a locked 100 battery. Case Closed.

Marrus, In the past this would have been 100% true but with all the different things going on lately with the S85 it wouldn't take much to change the charging CC/CV curves to mimic none capped packs.

 

[CameronB]

In reality, the “75 will be discontinued” announcement was just the latest in a long line of demand levers Tesla regularly pulls to entice people into ordering, but ends up being a big nothing burger.

The battery sticker doesn’t lie. At least one other standard range Raven owner on here has also confirmed their car was indeed delivered with a real 75 battery.

This ^^ is my understanding too. Given Tesla is trying to save money (remember Elon had told production workers that saving pennies here and there by being more efficient would "add up"), it seems kind of hard to believe they would be "giving away" an extra 25% of the single most expensive part on an EV.

 

[ucmndd]

The issue of battery pack is finally settled.

The Curb Weight of the 2019 "Standard Range" Model S is 4,883 lbs.
This is found ONLY in the Owner's Manual (p.176) and it is NOT the GVWR stamped on the tire pressure plate. GVWR is the Gross Vehicle Weight Rating, as in the maximum weight the car is designed to carry, including passengers and cargo.

Based on information from the owner's manual of my previous 2016 90D (p.174), the curb weight for the various trims are:
Curb Weight* - 60/70/75 4,469 lbs
Curb Weight* - 60D/70D/75D 4,647 lbs
Curb Weight* - 90D 4,736 lbs
Curb Weight* - P90D 4,841 lbs
Curb Weight* - 100D 4,883 lbs
Curb Weight* - P100D 4,941 lbs

It's an exact match with the 100D, which is confirmed with all the articles that point out packs smaller than 100D were discontinued in January 2019, and what I was told by the Ranger.

Case Closed.

Look, I get that you desperately want this to be true; to the point of disregarding mountains of direct evidence, but you really need to stop spreading misinformation.

I’ve attached screen shots of the Model S spec page from May 2019 courtesy of the internet archive. They clearly show the weight of the long range car at 4883 pounds, and the standard range at 4769.

Your battery part sticker clearly says 75kwh. Your car’s charging characteristics are identical to that of the 75kwh battery. It walks and quacks like a duck.

 

[powaking]

I believe there was a time where they stopped selling standard range S/X and only sold Long Range models. They then reverted back to selling standard range (75) but have now since gone back to selling Long Range only.

 

[ucmndd]

If you’d like even more definitive proof, you could try to get your list of option codes from EV-CPO:

https://www.ev-cpo.com/hunter/?lookup

 

[mal_tsla]

This thread wouldn't exist if Tesla had made fake 75kwh cars by raising the 0% voltage instead of dropping the 100% voltage.

Same result -- reduced range, but without the "we can charge these to 100%" shenanigans

 

[martinsfsu]

If you’d like even more definitive proof, you could try to get your list of option codes from EV-CPO:

https://www.ev-cpo.com/hunter/?lookup

That website does not work on 2019 cars. Try looking up any new inventory or used 2019 vin, you will get an error page. Here is an example:

 

[martinsfsu]

This thread wouldn't exist if Tesla had made fake 75kwh cars by raising the 0% voltage instead of dropping the 100% voltage.

Same result -- reduced range, but without the "we can charge these to 100%" shenanigans

that makes sense, Tesla is not stupid, and the softwear limitation will make the car think it's a 75, otherwise people would game the system by buying the Standard Range and charge to 100%.

 

[ucmndd]

The internet archive is an extremely well-known project that archives copies of websites occasionally for posterity. Those are actual copies of Tesla’s website from May. As reliable as it gets.

well, actually not as reliable as it gets. That would be your battery sticker.

yes, the manual is wrong. Yes, the articles are all wrong (they were reporting on Tesla’s announcement at the time, which time has shown to be false). Yes your ranger is wrong.

like I said, believe what you want - not my problem. But don’t bring others along with you.