Charging stopped-rebuild title

[erniejenson]

I have no pride, I don't mind begging! I feel that MP3Mike is a friend and not a stranger. Every time I have been corrected, he is absolutely correct and I was wrong. I have no problem with begging MP3Mike, no wrong information, a great asset to this forum. If he is paid by Tesla, even more wonderful. Now maybe even you can help me. First thing when the charge problem happened, I looked under the dash for the obd2 connector. Didn't find one but did find a little white connector, just a few wires; won't do. Went on the internet looking for any tester available for a Tesla. Found a guy who can break into the computer and look at the code, won't help me. I will beg again, can you please send me information about any CANbus tester that you have found for a Tesla. If you went to the car's computer, what kind of adapter did you find? How does it interpeat the data and show you the fault codes. Can you remove the fault codes with your tester? I didn't go any further as I can't deal with a thousand lines of code and what is the purpose of each line. I am old and I remember very well when the world went digital. When ever we made a change to the design my software engineers would write another hundred lines of code solwing the system down and requiring more storage. Memory storage was at a preuimum then. I would call that "Piling On engineering". Chips have gotten faster and memory is almost free now so "Piling On" is now the way. It is just hard to follow unless you are very knowledgable.
Here is my present status:
After requesting a duplicate title and the required transfer documents again from Copart, my information from the DMV, after being in their hands for over two month, arrived in the mail Friday post marked the 12th. They had assured me it had been mailed on the 27th. the month before.
Today I received an email from Tesla Service saying that they will try and get me into the system quickly and inspect my car and get me on the way to a completed and very enjoyable project. Thanks to all.

 

[MP3Mike]

I will beg again, can you please send me information about any CANbus tester that you have found for a Tesla. If you went to the car's computer, what kind of adapter did you find? How does it interpeat the data and show you the fault codes. Can you remove the fault codes with your tester?

The only thing I am aware of is something like Scan My Tesla, but it can only report information and I don't know that it does faults. (So I don't know if it would help or not.)

But you would need one of these adapters depending on when your M0del 3 was built:
Model 3 Center Console rear

• 2018 Tesla Model 3 Adapter (2018) – HRN-CT20T1
  
• 2019 Tesla Model 3 Adapter (2019) – HRN-CT20T11

And a BT OBDII dongle like this one: https://www.amazon.com/OBDLink-Blue...7bef28513cb16f42916eff0056d58f&language=en_US

And then the app: scan my tesla

You might be able to use Home to dig further into the CANbus...

 

[erniejenson]

Oh, let me explain extreme action. I have no intention of threatening anybody , least of all Tesla. Extreme action to me is loading my car in a trailer and driving to an independent that is several hundred miles away, taking out modules from my car and sending them across the country for programming, spending a great deal of money, or getting on my hands and knees and begging Tesla. First of all, I have the utmost respect for Elon and his team. They are doing what I think is the impossible. I have the belief that if I get my act totally together Tesla will do everything to make my project a success and my car a pleasure. Many people at Tesla are sympathetic with the do-it-yourself guy. However, soon I will get my car rolling down the road and I will be proud of my work regardless of the cost. What ever I start I finish.

 

[brkaus]

Oh, let me explain extreme action. I have no intention of threatening anybody , least of all Tesla. Extreme action to me is loading my car in a trailer and driving to an independent that is several hundred miles away, taking out modules from my car and sending them across the country for programming, spending a great deal of money, or getting on my hands and knees and begging Tesla. First of all, I have the utmost respect for Elon and his team. They are doing what I think is the impossible. I have the belief that if I get my act totally together Tesla will do everything to make my project a success and my car a pleasure. Many people at Tesla are sympathetic with the do-it-yourself guy. However, soon I will get my car rolling down the road and I will be proud of my work regardless of the cost. What ever I start I finish.

You keep saying "programming". I don't believe anything in your car needs programmed. You need to determine which module is sensing the error, which error, and correct it.

 

[erniejenson]

MP3Mike, Once again thank you for the input. I don't think I will pursue testers any further. Here are my reasons. I have the latest in obd2 testors and the new cars are more revealing and the testers are smarter. I generally get enough testors suggestions that I can solve the problems by being a part changer. I rarely get the scope out and look at wave forms or data comunication any more. However, I am guessing that Tesla is not listed on any obd2 tester and I would end up looking at wave froms and lines of code and be totally in the dark. I have a new storage scope and every time I get it out I have to learn how to use it all over again. I can just pay for stuff. Tell me if I am wrong.

 

[erniejenson]

Wow! that "Scan My Tesla" is impressive. I think I might need one of them. Want, not need.

 

[MP3Mike]

Wow! that "Scan My Tesla" is impressive. I think I might need one of them. Want, not need.

It's great for showing all kinds of data about an operating Tesla, I just don't know if it can show fault codes. But even seeing the data might give you clues, there is a lot of information in there.

It is only ~$150 to get everything you need, assuming you have a compatible Android tablet/phone, so it might be worth a shot.

But really your best bet is that once your Model 3 is added to your Tesla account you should be able to submit a service request and Tesla should be able to help. I don't know if they will give you the diagnosis, or if they will only want to do the whole sha-bang. (I think they charge ~$100 for a diagnosis and repair estimate.) But it is possible that they could tell you what the fault is from their remote diagnostics.

 

[erniejenson]

If Tesla will do the whole sha-bang, I want them to do it. Cost is not an issue. I have an Apple telephone, but I do have a Surface, a lap top running Win 10, and my regular computers on Win 10. But I don't mind buying another telephone. Tesla service is reaching out to me right now so I am really encouraged. I have to limit my time on this project as other inportant things are pressing. I have to get my car totally ready for Tesla's scrutiny. In the accident the front bumper was bent back enough to touch one of the horns. I couldn't find one anywhere, eBay and other places, spent many hours looking. Tesla would not sell me one: salvage title. I was forced to bend it back and fabricate a couple of renforcement plates and pop rivet them on. Now if Tesla inspectors pull off my front and rear facias and find that I repaired the front bumper, I am in the dog house for safety violations in their eyes. I think I have reinforced it properly in my eyes. When doing that repair I was very disapointed with Tesla for not supplying a safety part. I think Tesla feels that way right now and I must get going rectifing that problem. As much as I would like to, I can't take the time to dig into the computer technology if I can hire it to be done. I am obsessive about my cars being perfect. When Steve Jobs delayed the introduction of the Macintosh under tremendous pressure to make the PC boards inside beautiful, I can understand that. When I drive the car, I will always know that there is an ugly bumper under there if I don't replace it, regardless of the safety issue.

 

[MP3Mike]

In the accident the front bumper was bent back enough to touch one of the horns. I couldn't find one anywhere, eBay and other places, spent many hours looking. Tesla would not sell me one: salvage title. I was forced to bend it back and fabricate a couple of renforcement plates and pop rivet them on.

I still think you need to push back on them here. I looked in the parts catalog and all of the front/rear bumper parts, except pre-painted bumper covers, are classified as "Over-the-Counter(No VIN)" which means anyone should be able to buy them even if they don't own a Model 3.

 

[erniejenson]

Yes I know. They were not classified at that time either. I couldn't ever buy a non painted facia.That was three months ago. Tesla has changed their position, I am reasonably sure or I just got to the wrong person. I don't think I have any Tesla problems now. I am waiting to get my passenger's air bag installed. I will then pop in the bumper and I am off to the races. Unfortunately my buddy just lost his best mechanic and he is covered up with work. It is hard to hire a good mechanic in our area. I lost my only qualified mechanic a year ago and now he is making over $60K a year. All I have now is a detailer.

 

[user212_nr]

So you disconnected the 12v battery and the "12v charger" - did the car turn off at that point?

I think you are supposed to disconnect the HV as well.

I was looking around for ways to turn the car off, but it sounds to me that this did not work out for you.

The main battery is probably depleted to the point where it will not charge. You should replace the HV battery and sell the old one for parts. It can be disassembled and the modules themselves get a good price online and can be manually charged. Re-assembly is a feat I've not heard of anyone doing.

 

[brkaus]

So you disconnected the 12v battery and the "12v charger" - did the car turn off at that point?

I think you are supposed to disconnect the HV as well.

I was looking around for ways to turn the car off, but it sounds to me that this did not work out for you.

The main battery is probably depleted to the point where it will not charge. You should replace the HV battery and sell the old one for parts. It can be disassembled and the modules themselves get a good price online and can be manually charged. Re-assembly is a feat I've not heard of anyone doing.

The BMS will disconnect the main pack if it gets so low it would be in danger.

 

[user212_nr]

The BMS will disconnect the main pack if it gets so low it would be in danger.

The disconnect manual states (cant link it now) that connecting the HV power without 12v power risks depleting the HV battery. I was wondering if that was a typo, but this fits.

At any rate, "something" happened to his charger or battery.

 

[erniejenson]

Read careful now so I can communicate exactly and you all can give me, a Tesla newbie, pertinent advice on my unusual problem, "Battery won't Recharge". The electrical damage to my car was air bags and seatbelts. When air bags are deployed the pyro fuse blows to protect from fire in a wreck. The very first thing that I did was to replace the pyro fuse and was delighted to learn that everything worked and the car drove perfectly. For the first month when I was working on the car removing seat belts, resetting the air bag module, locating bumper covers, replacing the windshield, I would disconnect the 12 volt battery for safety. Just sitting, the car would lose about 5 miles of range every day so I would recharge the main battery to 85% capacity once a week. I have my Tesla charger connected to the 240 volt welder circuit in my garage giving 21 miles/hr. I didn't leave the charger plugged in all the time as I didn't want to step over the cable or do anything that might damage the plug. What I lost I could get back in less than two hours. I didn't leave the 12 volt battery unplugged all the time as I wanted to open the doors and play at the screen learning the car. Tesla covers their rivets with mastic. When I replaced the rear panel around the bumper I wanted to spray primer over my mastic so I remover the two rear taillights, that were not damaged, rather than mask them off. When I removed the left taillight ground wire I saw a little spark. That is when I learned that there are modules that are operating when the 12 volt battery is disconnected. Some modules are getting 12 volts from the onboard 12 volt charger directly. Under the ground terminal for the taillights is another ground wire going to the port module. Hadn't noticed and it was drawing 12 volt power. Caused a problem; shouldn't think so. I also had removed the center consul and reinstalled the reprogrammed air bag module. Caused a problem; shouldn't think so. When I went to charge the car that week the car would not accept a charge. I got a notification on the screen "Battery will not recharge". Plug into red, push the button red goes to blue and in five seconds goes back to red, no green. Up until this time the car charged and drove perfectly. Had 150 miles range left on the battery? Drove the car to brake and light test, 5 miles. Passed 100%. Requirement by DMV for Salvage title cars. Drove the car to Tesla Service, 20 miles there and back. Lost 30 miles sitting in Tesla Service department for six days. Tesla Service looked at the high voltage system visually but couldn't get permission from corporate to put it on the computer. The guys at Tesla were great, just couldn't help. Drove the car to three charging stations learning about plugs and hoping to find a way to test for charging with DC, no luck, 10 miles. Drove the car to get passenger air bag installed 5 miles. I have to take it to CHP for a vin verification and proof that the repair parts are not stolen, 20 miles. Have to take the car to Tesla Service in Pomona to get Tesla official certification, HV check again and collision inspection, 150 miles. Since I now have only 40 mile range left, the car has to go by flat bed. Now I prevent loss at the main battery by removing the 12 battery connector and the small black plug on the main battery that disconnects the power relay isolating the main battery from the car. The loss of the ability to recharge the battery was most unfortunate as this job was going perfectly. It's no deal breaker, just money and time. Education doesn’t come for free. How well I know, paying for three kids in graduate school.
Thanks to all for ideas.

 

[MP3Mike]

When I removed the left taillight ground wire I saw a little spark. That is when I learned that there are modules that are operating when the 12 volt battery is disconnected. Some modules are getting 12 volts from the onboard 12 volt charger directly. Under the ground terminal for the taillights is another ground wire going to the port module. Hadn't noticed and it was drawing 12 volt power. Caused a problem; shouldn't think so.

Have you checked and made sure that all of those grounds, and other wires you messed with around the charge port, are properly connected and making a good connection? But it is possible that disconnecting them when live, and causing a spark, damaged something. It wouldn't seem likely, but from what you said that seems like the most likely possibility. (Assuming you got everything reconnected correctly.)

 

[TomB985]

I've only read about half this thread, but was struck by your explanation of what caused it to stop charging.

You remove the taillight and noticed a spark, which you later determined was powered by +12 V coming from the AC/DC converter. Perhaps the short killed that or the onboard charger? I'm never one to advocate replacing parts without a confirmed diagnosis, but the lack of support from Tesla makes this a challenge.

 

[Electric700]

...Have to take the car to Tesla Service in Pomona to get Tesla official certification, HV check again and collision inspection, 150 miles. Since I now have only 40 mile range left, the car has to go by flat bed. ...

How has the recertification gone? I hope you get it fully working soon. It's interesting that disconnecting the 12 V doesn't really shut everything down. There must be something else that you need to do to make sure all circuits are deenergized, like using the car's shut down feature from the main screen or turning off a switch somewhere else in the car, so there will be no issue when you need to remove the rear tail lights for maintenance / replacement.

 

[erniejenson]

I have been in electronics a lot of years and know that is a really dumb thing to do. It all depends on the design of the circuit and how much inductive charge is built into the circuit. Every good mechanic in the ice world knows how a coil in a car gererates the spark in the combustion chamber. When an inductor is disconnected the voltage sores limited by the reactance until a spark happens. Put this event into your storage scope and look at the voltage spike and the ringing.
I can't remember any other grounds being unconnected. Keep in mind that I disconnected the large plug on the back of the consul, the two plugs on the air bag module and the seat belts and three of the four air bags. I think it is unlikely that I did damage to any of the components but there is flash memory that might get screwed up . Certanily there is memory in the port module. There must be car specifc information stored there. I don't know if the AC/DC converter is in the loop but the voltage disconnected comes from the DC/DC converter (on board 12 Volt battery charger). I bought another port module and plugged it in and no change. Then I thought, bad idea, it too will need to be reprogramed.
I think it is imperative that I get Tesla to update my computer and/or reprogram my modules. Otherwise I have to wait for the rooters to get up to speed and spend a lot of money hauling the car around. A rooted car will always have a little black cloud as any update from Tesla might cause a problem. I hate to modify connectors to my battery to accept my own DC charging. mp3Mike has advised to not do this and I think he is the smartest guy around.

 

[smatthew]

How has the recertification gone? I hope you get it fully working soon. It's interesting that disconnecting the 12 V doesn't really shut everything down. There must be something else that you need to do to make sure all circuits are deenergized, like using the car's shut down feature from the main screen or turning off a switch somewhere else in the car, so there will be no issue when you need to remove the rear tail lights for maintenance / replacement.

Unfortunately, Ernie's car will not pass a Tesla HV Inspection. The HV Inspection on a model 3 includes:

• Drive Inverter
• Battery Chiller
• AC Compressor
• VCFront
• Coolant Pumps
• Drive unit(s)
• Penthouse internal components
• HV cables, joints, and connectors
• charge port
• charge port ecu

If the vehicle doesn't charge, it will not pass HV inspection.

 

[linux-works]

When an inductor is disconnected the voltage sores limited by the reactance until a spark happens. Put this event into your storage scope and look at the voltage spike and thr ringing.

pffff!

you now owe me a new storage scope.