Charging the Roadster

GSP · Jan 31, 2009

My "Roadster wishlist" has several items related to charging.

7) SAE/DIN standardized charging connector that can be used at any public recharge point worldwide.

SAE's J1772 committee is working on a spec for this. I think they are talking to their counterparts in the EU, Japan, China, etc. Hopefully they can agree on a worldwide standard, since that would lower costs and be better for customers.

8) optional high voltage DC fast charge connector for 3-phase external charger

Hopefully the 600v, 550 ADC standard that I posted here http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/technical/1381-charging-station-standards-7.html#post20420 will be accepted for fast high voltage DC external chargers. Cars could be equipped with two standard charge points. One to provide AC (probably only single phase) to an on-board charger, the other to provide DC directly to the battery from an external charger. Like the iMiEV.

9) V2G communications to allow utility to control charging (but no power to grid)

Hopefully SAE, EPRI, the EU, etc can agree on worldwide standard protocols for vehicle to charger to grid interfaces for both on-board chargers, and off-board "45-60 min" chargers.

10) Mobile charge connector with 110v 15A, 220v 30A, 220v 50A, and 220v70A capability for $500 or less.

In addition to plugs that work with 110v and 220v outlets found in households, RV parks, golf courses, etc. It also would be good to have plug(s) for the IEC 60309 connector system, as suggested by dpeilow.

GSP

doug · Jan 31, 2009

DaveD said:
In addition to the Tesla-compatible cable, there would need to be the pilot signal circuitry, and probably a relay (don't want 240V on that connector when attaching it).

Right, a way around needing a relay on your cord (and part of general electrical safety) is to plug the cord into your device before you plug it into the outlet. Of course not everyone does that. I guess that that pilot signal is needed to close a relay inside the car (that clunk you hear), and to tell the car how much current is available.

I'm curious how charging works with the 120V cable (MC120) my only guess is that the circuit for that pilot signal, if present, is embedded in the Tesla connector, since the GFCI plug and cable are an off the shelf item.

The vendor appears to be North Shore Safety Ltd, maybe part of their LineGard Plus GFCI series.

Still waiting for word on when the 240V mobile connector (MC240) will be available. I'm curious as to why it's limited to 30 amps, instead of say 50. Is that part of the same legal restrictions that have been mentioned before? If Tesla is using the same vendor, it looks like of the portable 240V GFCI units they have, the highest available current rating is 30 amps, and perhaps that's a reason for the limitation.

vfx · Jan 31, 2009

doug said:
... when the 240V mobile connector (MC240) will be available. I'm curious as to why it's limited to 30 amps, instead of say 50.

Maybe so they can sell another one in 6 months.

TEG · Jan 31, 2009

30 amp circuits are much more common than the higher current ones.

donauker · Feb 1, 2009

TEG said:
30 amp circuits are much more common than the higher current ones.

This is true around the normal home, but the mobile high power connector description lists it as having a NEMA 14-50 plug. This means that the circuit will need to be a 50 amp circuit so by regulation this device could draw 40 amps. This is also by far the most available 230 volt connector when traveling. There are hundreds of thousands in RV parks all over the country.

TEG · Feb 1, 2009

Well, if you use one of those Avcon to NEMA14-50 adapter boxes, it still isn't safe to draw a whole lot more than 30 amps because they generally have 40 amp breakers behind them. Even though the NEMA 14-50 connector can support up to 50amps you have to consider other regulations, standards and "lowest common denominator" breakers.

My RangerEV draws 32amps@240V (7.68kW) and was following some sort of "Level 2" charging standards.

Some related info here:

Charging Station Notes
Ev Archive for August 1999
PFC-50 testing ...

On a 40 amp circuit, you should be able to get 32 amps AC out of it by Electrical code. A previous POST by a evi representative said the ics-200 was spec'd at providing 32 amps.

How to Size a Circuit Breaker | eHow.com

Recognize that a circuit breaker is usually sized to operate at no more than 80 percent of its rated capacity.

(So with 40 amp breakers it is only considered safe to draw 32amps.)

dpeilow · Feb 15, 2009

Seems like a useful site (I hadn't noticed the source of some of TEG's previous pics until now):

Marsh St Parking Structure (93401_4)

http://www.evchargernews.com/

graham · Feb 15, 2009

So this parking structure is apparently about 160 miles from my house (theoretically within Roadster driving range). I wonder how long a charger such as this would take to fully recharge a Roadster?

8 hours? 16 hours? If I ever wanted to take a Roadster on a really slow trip to Southern California, this charger might make it possible. Maybe 1 night in SLO, and a second night in Santa Barbara or something.

doug · Feb 16, 2009

HPC unboxing

Tesla HPC - a set on Flickr

Still in the box.

Smoke detector

Side view:

doug · Feb 16, 2009

HPC unboxing

Tesla HPC - a set on Flickr

Tesla HPC internals:

PCBA:

DaveD · Feb 16, 2009

Clipper Creek HPC unboxing

These are taken with my crappy cell phone camera. I'll try to get some better pics soon.

I'll also get the printed documentation scanned and posted soon.

Green Button label: Charge, Red button label: Stop

Palpatine · Feb 16, 2009

What are the improvements from the new version of the HPC from Clipper Creek vs the original verision of the HPC?

vfx · Feb 16, 2009

James said:
What are the improvements from the new version of the HPC from Clipper Creek vs the original verision of the HPC?

Three thousand dollars?

doug · Feb 16, 2009

Interesting, Dave, that you got a Clipper Creek HPC, and Todd got a Tesla one when your delivery time was essentially the same. Perhaps he got one of the last Tesla made units.

I don't think Clipper Creak one will have as many safety interlocks?

.

Joseph · Feb 16, 2009

Which charger is Tesla giving to customers? Clipper's or Tesla's HPC?

(No wonder their charger isn't economical if they're producing two different ones a the same time!)

Elon complained that the Tesla's connector/cable/whatever just itself was $$$ because of its low volume; is Clipper's connector/cable/whatever different? Are their capabilities different?

Is Tesla going to phase out their old charger or what?

doug · Feb 16, 2009

I thought you answered your own question here:

doug said:
Joseph said:

Tesla Motors, at first, did their own in-house designing for charging. After Tesla fired Martin and all those employees, they hired Clipper Creek (they used to be called EVI, ev infrastructure, and did all the conductive AVCON chargers during the ZEV mandate era) to do work on the Tesla charging system.

Click to expand...

Actually, this makes a lot of sense. Tesla isn't making money selling chargers. So perhaps that explains this and this.

Both are going to customers, but I think Tesla stopped making their own and will just use Clipper Creek as a vendor. Interesting to finally see a Tesla branded Clipper Creek one.

Btw, the folks at EVcast did an interview with Dave Packard (not the HP guy) from Clipper Creek last week. You can hear it here: EVcast #176: Charging Stations, VW, and Dog Seizures

dpeilow · Feb 16, 2009

Is this new type able to be installed outside, like their AVCON counterparts seemed to be? I presume it was one of these that we could see in the reflection on the Smart.