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Charging time Tesla charger vs Standard 50amp outlet

Hi! I am getting a new Model Y in a few weeks and am deciding between the Tesla charger, the Juicebox ,or sticking with a regular 50 amp 240vac outlet. Does the tesla charger/juicebox charge any faster than the 50amp standard plug? OR does it just give you more features?

Thank you
 

jcanoe

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2020
5,285
5,757
Maryland
Hi! I am getting a new Model Y in a few weeks and am deciding between the Tesla charger, the Juicebox ,or sticking with a regular 50 amp 240vac outlet. Does the tesla charger/juicebox charge any faster than the 50amp standard plug? OR does it just give you more features?

Thank you
Yes; The Tesla Wall Connector can enable you charge your Tesla vehicle faster that the Tesla Mobile connector plugged into a NEMA 14-50 (50A) receptacle. Fastest charging can happen when installed on a 60A circuit, still faster than the Mobile Connector when installed on a 50A circuit. The Wall Connector will enable charging at the same speed as the Mobile Connector when the Wall Connector is installed on a 40A circuit. The Mobile Connector enables charging at a maximum of 32 amps (even when used on a 50A rated circuit.)

Wall Connector Rated Circuit Amperage / Maximum Charging Amperage (80% of circuit rating)
60 / 48
50 / 40
40 / 32

Mobile Connector Rated Circuit Amperage / Maximum Charging Amperage (80% of circuit rating)
50 / 32 (Limited to less than 80% of 50A rating for extra margin of safety from possible overheating)
40 / 32
30 / 24
20 / 16
15 / 12
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,846
13,402
Springfield, VA
Charging from a 50 amp outlet with the included mobile charge cable will charge the car at 32 amps. Charging a long range Y from a Wall Connector on a 60 amp circuit will charge the car at 48 amps, which is 50% faster.

Wall Connector
Technical details
Charge Speed
Max miles of range per hour of charge
Circuit breaker
(amps)
Maximum output
(amps)
Power at 240 volts
(kilowatt)
Model S
(mph)
Model 3*
(mph)
Model X
(mph)
Model Y
(mph)
604811.5 kW34443042
50409.6 kW29372536
40327.7 kW23302029
30245.7 kW17221421
20163.8 kW1115814
15122.8 kW711510
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,830
9,851
Boise, ID
@NJcarowner You're getting really good answers. I'll just add an overall conceptual thing that the devices aren't really doing something that makes the charging faster or slower, because all of these things external to the car are just closing a switch. It's just that the different parts are built to a certain max amount of amps of capacity that they will allow, and you just want to be aware of where that lowest common denominator is that can limit the whole path to a certain number of amps:

1. Circuit in your house is built for a certain number of amps. (You pick that based on what type of equipment you want to use. And yes, there's that 80% usage rule mentioned above.)
2. Wall connector or mobile charge cords have a certain max rating. (You basically would match that to what level of circuit you're getting. Wall connector can send up to 48A, and mobile cable up to 32A.)
3. Onboard charger inside the car. (The short range and medium range cars come with an onboard chargers that can only process up to 32A. The long range battery ones can do up to 48A.)
 
I swear I get 38 mph, or 10kW exactly, when charging with my Juicebox, which is connected to a 50 amp circuit. If that's the case, I guess it's safe to say that the Juicebox is faster than both Tesla chargers when connected to a 50 amp circuit. Another plus to the Juicebox is it's ability to charge only during a window of time, track usage, control access, etc.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,846
13,402
Springfield, VA
I swear I get 38 mph, or 10kW exactly, when charging with my Juicebox, which is connected to a 50 amp circuit. If that's the case, I guess it's safe to say that the Juicebox is faster than both Tesla chargers when connected to a 50 amp circuit. Another plus to the Juicebox is it's ability to charge only during a window of time, track usage, control access, etc.

10 kW is basically 40 amps. Your voltage might be a little higher than normal or your juice box might be putting out an extra amp. It’s equivalent to the wall connector on a 50 amp circuit.

My JuiceBox is great but it only allows for one peak period per day. My summer rate schedule has two different peak periods, which is kind of annoying.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,846
13,402
Springfield, VA
But the wall connector specs 36 mph, or 9.6kW.

That’s only a 400 watt difference, which could easily be attributed to your grid being slightly hot (higher voltage), rounding, or the JuiceBox being slightly proud with its amp limitation. A screenshot from the third page of your Enel X app will tell us why.
 

Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,830
9,851
Boise, ID
I swear I get 38 mph, or 10kW exactly, when charging with my Juicebox, which is connected to a 50 amp circuit.
But the wall connector specs 36 mph, or 9.6kW.
Someone is being extremely hand-wavy with their marketing speak. There's nothing mysterious about this--it's just arithmetic. Your house's voltage should be 240V, plus or minus a couple. Code only allows a long term draw of 40A on a 50A rated circuit. The power is the volts times the amps. That is 240 times 40. That is 9600 Watts. That is 9.6 kW. Juicebox telling anyone 10kW is fudging/bragging by rounding up the actual number to make a more clean looking set of digits. So no, you are not really getting 10kW from that Juicebox unit.
 

jcanoe

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2020
5,285
5,757
Maryland
I never put much stock in Tesla's estimate of how many miles you can add to the vehicle's range per hour of charging with the different plug types, power. 240V and 40A is 9.6kW. How much of the 9.6kW is available to charge the battery depends on whether the vehicle needs to heat or cool the battery during charging.

After an hour, assuming 90% charging efficiency, ~8.6kWh will have been added to the battery. Using an estimate of 239Wh/mile for how many miles you can travel per kWh results in Tesla's estimate of 36 miles per hour of charging at 240V/40A.

I average 270Wh/mile so that is what I use when estimating. By my estimate I would add 32 miles per hour when charging at 9.6kW (8.6kWh added to the battery after 1 hour.) As they say, your mileage may vary.

When I charge my Model Y at home I charge at 240V and 32A. (I do not use either the Tesla Mobile Connector or the Tesla Wall Connector.) Tesla estimates that when charging at 240V and 32A (7.7kW) using the Mobile Connector with the NEMA 14-50 plug adapter adds 29 miles per hour of charging. By my estimate I add 25.6 miles per hour of charging at 7.7kW (assuming 90% charging efficiency.) In my experience 25 miles of range added per hour of charging at 240V and 32A is a better estimate based on my driving efficiency. Someone who regularly achieves 240Wh/mile efficiency would be able to charge, add closer to the 29 miles per hour of charging that Tesla estimates.
 
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Thank you all for the great answers! I am thinking of getting the Juicebox 48 amp, but does anyone have experience mounting it outside? I'm in northern NJ. How does it do in the cold weather/rain?

I generally park in my driveway, but sometimes (when the garage is not cluttered) park in the garage. I am thinking of putting a standard 240V outlet receptacle in the garage and the Juicebox outside facing the driveway...
 
Thank you all for the great answers! I am thinking of getting the Juicebox 48 amp, but does anyone have experience mounting it outside? I'm in northern NJ. How does it do in the cold weather/rain?

I generally park in my driveway, but sometimes (when the garage is not cluttered) park in the garage. I am thinking of putting a standard 240V outlet receptacle in the garage and the Juicebox outside facing the driveway...
Put an outlet or wallbox or juicebox at the front of the garage (closest to door) with a 20' cord. That way it'll work either inside or out. If it's a stretch outside, you can back in your driveway to have charge port close to the garage and you'll be able to park wherever.

Also, yes, those dedicated EVSE's charge faster, but do you NEED that? I've run my car down to 5 percent and charged overnight up to 80, 85 or even 90% plenty of times. Since I get home at dinner time and don't leave until the next day (or even when I'm out running the kids around after dinner) the car has plenty of time (9-11 hours) to charge and charging at 32 A is PLENTY. I've never needed more.

Now, I did up-size the wire so if I chose to change to a 60 or 80 amp breaker and go to a bigger EVSE, I don't have to re-run the wire. Size the wire for as big as you could ever put in your panel. It's a few bucks more but you don't ever have to re-do it. That way if I get another EV or a plug in PHEV, I can up-size to a wall connector with double cords for more charging. I have a feeling I'll be in that boat next year when I replace my wife's Cayenne. Likely getting an X5 or Cayenne plug-in hybrid.
 
Put an outlet or wallbox or juicebox at the front of the garage (closest to door) with a 20' cord. That way it'll work either inside or out. If it's a stretch outside, you can back in your driveway to have charge port close to the garage and you'll be able to park wherever.

Also, yes, those dedicated EVSE's charge faster, but do you NEED that? I've run my car down to 5 percent and charged overnight up to 80, 85 or even 90% plenty of times. Since I get home at dinner time and don't leave until the next day (or even when I'm out running the kids around after dinner) the car has plenty of time (9-11 hours) to charge and charging at 32 A is PLENTY. I've never needed more.

Now, I did up-size the wire so if I chose to change to a 60 or 80 amp breaker and go to a bigger EVSE, I don't have to re-run the wire. Size the wire for as big as you could ever put in your panel. It's a few bucks more but you don't ever have to re-do it. That way if I get another EV or a plug in PHEV, I can up-size to a wall connector with double cords for more charging. I have a feeling I'll be in that boat next year when I replace my wife's Cayenne. Likely getting an X5 or Cayenne plug-in hybrid.

But do you pass the charging cable under the garage door? I was afraid to damage the cable by doing so
 
Thank you all for the great answers! I am thinking of getting the Juicebox 48 amp, but does anyone have experience mounting it outside? I'm in northern NJ. How does it do in the cold weather/rain?

I generally park in my driveway, but sometimes (when the garage is not cluttered) park in the garage. I am thinking of putting a standard 240V outlet receptacle in the garage and the Juicebox outside facing the driveway...

Hi. NJ I believe you are over thinking this whole home-charging thing. I charge our Tesla MY two places; in a garage in AZ and outside in a carport on Cape Cod. The OEM supplied charger works perfectly in both locations. I keep the MY charged to 80% unless traveling. Can't imagine a situation where I couldn't fully charge prior to waking up for the next day's ride.

Rich

Outdoors on Cape Cod (the Bolt/Blue Bunny, now lives in AZ)
nRhLndm.jpg


Our MY (Blue Bunny II) in AZ (now with us on the Cape after a +2800 ride!). I use the OEM charger. Works like a charm.
asymcKD.jpg
 
Hi. NJ I believe you are over thinking this whole home-charging thing. I charge our Tesla MY two places; in a garage in AZ and outside in a carport on Cape Cod. The OEM supplied charger works perfectly in both locations. I keep the MY charged to 80% unless traveling. Can't imagine a situation where I couldn't fully charge prior to waking up for the next day's ride.

Rich

Outdoors on Cape Cod (the Bolt/Blue Bunny, now lives in AZ)
nRhLndm.jpg


Our MY (Blue Bunny II) in AZ (now with us on the Cape after a +2800 ride!). I use the OEM charger. Works like a charm.
asymcKD.jpg
I probably am overthinking it 😂 but trying to figure out how to have the option of charging it in my garage or in my driveway
 

jcanoe

Well-Known Member
Oct 2, 2020
5,285
5,757
Maryland
For an outdoor installation a hard-wired EVSE is a better option than installing a receptacle. A plug and receptacle connection will always be a weak link where moisture, water can get into the connection. The typical NEMA 14-50 receptacle installed at home is not designed for a high number of plug and unplug operations, those14-50 receptacles that are designed, capable of a high number of plug and unplug cycles cost more.

The Tesla Wall Connector is designed to be hard wired into the circuit and is full rated NEMA 4 (can be sprayed with a garden hose.) I am certain that Juicebox also offers an EVSE that is similarly rated NEMA 3 (can be used in wet environments) or NEMA 4. If you want to charge at 48A just because the Tesla is capable then you will have to use a hard wired installation. Charging at 48A requires a 60A circuit. The NEMA 14-50 receptacle that everyone touts is rated for a maximum of 50A so your charging would be limited to 40A (80% of 50A.) The Tesla Wall Connector on either a 50A or 60A circuit would be my suggestion.

If you install a NEMA 14-50 receptacle the cost of all of the additional components required (GFCI circuit breaker, NEMA receptacle w/weather housing, Mobile Connector 14-50 adapter plug, Mobile Connector chassis mount, charging cable hanger, 3-conductor wire plus the ground wire (the Wall Connector only requires 2-conductors plus the ground) the additional cost of the Wall Connector is probably only $200. There are some good features with the Juicebox 48A EVSE but it costs more than the Tesla Wall Connector. (My only issue with the Tesla Wall Connector is the charging cord is only 18 feet long.)
 
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DanDi58

Active Member
Jun 22, 2020
1,986
1,583
Dayton NJ
I probably am overthinking it 😂 but trying to figure out how to have the option of charging it in my garage or in my driveway
You haven't mentioned your daily range needs, but I had a 14-50 NEMA outlet installed in my garage near the door, as my car sits in the driveway. I have the cable running under my garage door (there is a gap in the rubber seal so the door isn't resting on the cable). The cost was $800 as they had to run the wiring about 40 ft from my panel in the basement. Last night, I charged from 15% to 80% and it took just under 7 hours and cost $3.05.
 
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Rocky_H

Well-Known Member
Feb 19, 2015
7,830
9,851
Boise, ID
But do you pass the charging cable under the garage door? I was afraid to damage the cable by doing so
I don't think that is too much of a big deal (I've done it a couple of times). But to mitigate it, I've seen a couple of pretty good ideas for this. The simple temporary solution to use as needed is to get a couple of boards that are about the thickness of the cable (about a half inch? 3/4 of an inch?) and just lay them down on each side of the cable, and then the garage door rests on those and isn't pressing the cable.

And the more permanent solution is to rent a concrete saw and cut a small groove that's maybe a half inch deep where the door comes down. Then, you can lay the cord in that groove and it gets it below where the door would press.
 

Big Earl

bnkwupt
Supporting Member
Jul 12, 2017
6,846
13,402
Springfield, VA
Putting boards under the door might damage the closing mechanism. Most garage doors have limit knobs that you adjust to change the closing height; just sticking boards under it could cause the door to reverse direction due to the obstruction. You could raise the closing limit on the door a half inch, but that would cause a permanent gap whenever the door is closed.
 
Putting boards under the door might damage the closing mechanism. Most garage doors have limit knobs that you adjust to change the closing height; just sticking boards under it could cause the door to reverse direction due to the obstruction. You could raise the closing limit on the door a half inch, but that would cause a permanent gap whenever the door is closed.
That's what i'm afraid of. I work in sales, and drive anywhere from a few miles a day to a few hundred, depending on the day. I don't want to damage the garage door or the cord and i don't want a gap either. I'm still leaning towards installing the Juicebox where i park more often (driveway) and the nema 14-50 in the garage for times when i park there.
 

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