What is worse for battery and leads to faster degradation? Let’s say I need to go 220 miles on my SR+, which would require me to charge to 240 miles/100% of battery capacity. Alternatively I can charge to 80% at home, which will give me 193 or so miles of range, probably ~170 of effective real world miles. In this case I would have to supercharge in the middle of the trip. What is better for battery?
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Charging to 100% at home vs Supercharging
- Thread starter Nickage87
- Start date
Both are "worse" and the most important part is not letting it sit at 100%. Drive immediately. Also charging at home will probably be a little less stressful since the slower you charge the better the battery like it.
The difference in degradation we’re contemplating here is very, very small. Do what is the most convenient for you.
If the scenario is charge to 100% at home or a quick Supercharger session, I would always pick leaving at 100% to provide additional flexibility while driving. For example, if the weather is unexpectedly bad, you can always stop at the Supercharger later.
If the scenario is charge to 100% at home or a quick Supercharger session, I would always pick leaving at 100% to provide additional flexibility while driving. For example, if the weather is unexpectedly bad, you can always stop at the Supercharger later.
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Yanquetino
Member
I don't think that's quite accurate… or, at least not according to Tesla's battery consultant, Professor Jeff Dahn at Dalhousie University. He claims that time is the "bad actor," i.e., the slower a charge, the more TIME for the parasitic reactions to take place:
The charging speed discussion aside, a major factor to battery degradation is how deep each cycle goes. So if you need 80% of your total range to do The Thing, it’s better if it’s done in two 40% discharges (say, 80% to 40%) than one big drop (like 100% to 20%).
BUT, ‘heavy’ use cycles are pretty much in the noise for a Tesla battery, especially if they’re a statistically manageable number of lifetime cycles.
In other words, as advised above, do what’s most convenient and don’t sweat it.
BUT, ‘heavy’ use cycles are pretty much in the noise for a Tesla battery, especially if they’re a statistically manageable number of lifetime cycles.
In other words, as advised above, do what’s most convenient and don’t sweat it.
Yanquetino
Member
YES… and how long the battery sits idle at both the low end (10%) and high end (100%) —a real "no-no." I typically only charge to 80% for this very reason. I've dipped below 10% only twice that I can remember, and immediately plugged in. And I've charged to 100% only 12 out of 736 charges to date. I'd like to think (?) that's why my battery is still at ~98.8% capacity.
Really just do what you've got to do. I prefer to have regen available right away, daily driving I charge to 85% on my SR+ which gives a good pedal feel to me. When we take a long trip I just hit the first supercharger when needed per the nav and then keep going. There's nothing wrong with rolling into a SuperCharger at 8% and charging to 75% if that's what it takes to get you to the next one... but rolling in at 60% then charging to 80% when you could make it to the next one with 20% in the tank is your decision too just know that getting that 60-80 is going to take a bit.
I really wish Tesla would start advertising or releasing videos on the cars for real world usage.
Don't over think it. Try not to stress over the numbers or it'll drive you nuts. I think most everyone that comes to the forums because their total range drops a bit goes through this then just accepts it after awhile. Tesla isn't going to replace the battery until you're under 70% within the warranty and I'm sure the majority of us won't even have these cars in 5+yrs and by then *hopefully* we're got a ton of every flavor of chargers on every block like gas stations.
I'm sure I'll get downvotes but thats my outlook on it and I've "lost" 15miles on my year old SR+ that never actually saw 240mi... meh ya move on and get the wife to buy a Model Y!
I really wish Tesla would start advertising or releasing videos on the cars for real world usage.
Don't over think it. Try not to stress over the numbers or it'll drive you nuts. I think most everyone that comes to the forums because their total range drops a bit goes through this then just accepts it after awhile. Tesla isn't going to replace the battery until you're under 70% within the warranty and I'm sure the majority of us won't even have these cars in 5+yrs and by then *hopefully* we're got a ton of every flavor of chargers on every block like gas stations.
I'm sure I'll get downvotes but thats my outlook on it and I've "lost" 15miles on my year old SR+ that never actually saw 240mi... meh ya move on and get the wife to buy a Model Y!
I know it's hypothetical, but if you needed to go 220mi and believe your car has 240mi, you shouldn't charge to 100% to do the trip in one go.
Not just because having it close to 100, and running it down close to 0, are both "bad" for the battery...
...but because you have very little margin of error if (for any numerous possible reasons) you will run short of making it. Then you might be at 80% of the route with 5% of battery left, for example.
If I was doing a trip like that, I'd plan for a quick top up somewhere along the way.
Not just because having it close to 100, and running it down close to 0, are both "bad" for the battery...
...but because you have very little margin of error if (for any numerous possible reasons) you will run short of making it. Then you might be at 80% of the route with 5% of battery left, for example.
If I was doing a trip like that, I'd plan for a quick top up somewhere along the way.
There is 8 year warranty on these batteries. Just charge to 90% normally and 100% for longer trips.
Charging at home should be better than Supercharging. I'm fine with charging at home to 100% just before starting a long trip. It saves a little charging time somewhere, unless you're just sitting at home waiting for it to finish before you take off. At worst you'll have to do a "splash and go" at a Supercharger, hopefully at a low charge level on the way back. That'll take a lot less time during your trip than doing a substantial planned Supercharge.
yerEVan
Active Member
Trade in for a LR? If this is going to be a long term habit.
However, if an SR+ has a 75/78KWh battery but limits a 100% charge to 58KWh of that 75KWh, wouldn’t BMS take care of the battery where 100% charge for SR+ is really only 58 of the 75? So their 100% is really not that big of a deal?
I think this may have been discussed before.
However, if an SR+ has a 75/78KWh battery but limits a 100% charge to 58KWh of that 75KWh, wouldn’t BMS take care of the battery where 100% charge for SR+ is really only 58 of the 75? So their 100% is really not that big of a deal?
I think this may have been discussed before.
Yes, it certainly has. The SR+ battery is indeed a different, smaller pack. It is not a software-locked LR pack. This is evidenced by its lighter weight and proportionally slower Supercharging speeds as well as confirmation by insiders.
Charging at home to 100% is “easier” on the battery (provided its 220v, not 110v) as long as you depart soon after fully charging. Supercharging will stress the pack more simply because of the dramatically higher rate of charge over the last 5%.
Realistically speaking though, it’s not a *huge* concern. It’s great to be mindful, but don’t stress about it. Go ahead and supercharge as needed, but don’t let the car sit at 100% for long - use that extra range as soon as you can and you’ll be fine.
Realistically speaking though, it’s not a *huge* concern. It’s great to be mindful, but don’t stress about it. Go ahead and supercharge as needed, but don’t let the car sit at 100% for long - use that extra range as soon as you can and you’ll be fine.
Atari2600
Active Member
I auto charge to 90% then start charging manually a couple hours before I leave (I charge at 6kw) and approach 100%. I did that on a trip this weekend which I posted the details of in another thread replying to a comment about regeneration during constant highway speeds.
In my case I have no superchargers so I don't have any choice unless I want to swing by someone I know and and plug into their electric dryer or range. I normally have 20% buffer for local trips and sentry mode when I do this.
After your car is charged to 90% start the charge process and note how much time it takes to finish the charge. Either program the charge to start that amount of time before your trip or manually start it. Charging over 90% is worse when it's hot out. Someone had a temp vs charge stress graph and I have no clue how to search for it.
When I return I make sure to charge my car up to at least 50% ASAP.
In my case I have no superchargers so I don't have any choice unless I want to swing by someone I know and and plug into their electric dryer or range. I normally have 20% buffer for local trips and sentry mode when I do this.
After your car is charged to 90% start the charge process and note how much time it takes to finish the charge. Either program the charge to start that amount of time before your trip or manually start it. Charging over 90% is worse when it's hot out. Someone had a temp vs charge stress graph and I have no clue how to search for it.
When I return I make sure to charge my car up to at least 50% ASAP.
Higher SOC is "worse" and "leads to faster degradation".
I find that rarely do my hypothetical trips actually match my real world ones. Do you have a place to charge at the end of your 220 mile trip? If you do, then charge to 100% and drive the 220 miles, but keep an eye on your consumption, since if you have a headwind or drive faster than usual, or have the AC/heat cranked, you may find yourself using more than your norm.
If you're doing a roundtrip, then try the trip planner in ABRP, and see what it recommends. You'll be surprised that often starting at lower SOC levels doesn't really hurt your trip time too much, gives you less to worry about, not having to think so much about your consumption rate, since you know the trip planner has you stopping for a few minutes.
drdumont
Member
Although I have only had my "traveling" Model 3 since February, I have found that there's no reason to charge to 100% since I have SCs within 100 miles of my house. You may not.
I like to have the dynamic braking always available. I charge at the house to 90 percent as a matter of course.
On the first trip to New Orleans and back, I stopped at a SC about 25 away miles for a coffee and topped off to 95, JFTHOI. After that, Linden (Free Coffee with a Tesla card), Shreveport, Alexandria, Baton Rouge and New Orleans were all comfortable, reasonably short charge stops and (to paraphrase the movie), I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Car.
A couple of notes, however, which may be old news to old hands, but:
On a couple of the long legs, the graphs said I would arrive at the next SC with <>22%. Shortly thereafter I got under the line, and the predictor sat at 17% arrival. So I played with speed, etc. MAYBE got the 17 to change to 19, but it seemed to return to 17% no matter what. So I said "The Hell with it", cranked up to 85 and quit worrying. Got to the SCs with about 20%. Like I said, stop worrying. But be observant...
I did the same drive last weekend, and this time, just charged until the system stopped, got in, drove at highway speeds, rinse and repeat, and no worries. I'm getting to realize the car is smarter than I.
I have noted, however, that if you run the A/C in Recirculate, you use less energy. Think about it. If it is 98° outside and you want 74° inside, you would be constantly cooling the hot air with a delta of 24°. With recirculation on, there is less work for the unit to do, and a delta of maybe 4°. I don't smoke any more, so if I need a little fresh air, I roll down the window for a moment or two. I'm gonna play with this some more.
ABRP is finally getting its software act together, but I find it a little more pessimistic than the Navigation system, so there is a tendency for a little more rectal flutter, especially with the SR + battery. But just like the singing fish, I am astounded that it does what it does.
My conclusion is that the car is smarter than I am, and I'm much happier letting it think for me. Except for FSD. I'll, drive, thank you very much... <ducking for cover>.
I like to have the dynamic braking always available. I charge at the house to 90 percent as a matter of course.
On the first trip to New Orleans and back, I stopped at a SC about 25 away miles for a coffee and topped off to 95, JFTHOI. After that, Linden (Free Coffee with a Tesla card), Shreveport, Alexandria, Baton Rouge and New Orleans were all comfortable, reasonably short charge stops and (to paraphrase the movie), I Stopped Worrying and Learned to Love the Car.
A couple of notes, however, which may be old news to old hands, but:
On a couple of the long legs, the graphs said I would arrive at the next SC with <>22%. Shortly thereafter I got under the line, and the predictor sat at 17% arrival. So I played with speed, etc. MAYBE got the 17 to change to 19, but it seemed to return to 17% no matter what. So I said "The Hell with it", cranked up to 85 and quit worrying. Got to the SCs with about 20%. Like I said, stop worrying. But be observant...
I did the same drive last weekend, and this time, just charged until the system stopped, got in, drove at highway speeds, rinse and repeat, and no worries. I'm getting to realize the car is smarter than I.
I have noted, however, that if you run the A/C in Recirculate, you use less energy. Think about it. If it is 98° outside and you want 74° inside, you would be constantly cooling the hot air with a delta of 24°. With recirculation on, there is less work for the unit to do, and a delta of maybe 4°. I don't smoke any more, so if I need a little fresh air, I roll down the window for a moment or two. I'm gonna play with this some more.
ABRP is finally getting its software act together, but I find it a little more pessimistic than the Navigation system, so there is a tendency for a little more rectal flutter, especially with the SR + battery. But just like the singing fish, I am astounded that it does what it does.
My conclusion is that the car is smarter than I am, and I'm much happier letting it think for me. Except for FSD. I'll, drive, thank you very much... <ducking for cover>.
Personally I'd charge at home to 100%, drive quickly and do a quick charge late on in the journey. 25 mins will take you from 10% to 80% by which time the charge rate will be below 50kw, so not worth continuing.
I used the Supercharger for the first 6000 miles in my Model 3 P because they were free and time limited. When that ran out I wired up external sockets 240v which gives me 2-2.3 kw charging 8=9 miles an hour. Went on day trip today 89% down to 21% almost 24 hours to get back to 90%. No problem. Probably go golf and stick it on 7.4kw charger for 1 1/2 hours will be back to 90% quickly. Even if I didn't I be back to that for my next 200 mile trip the following day anyway. Generally only need Superchargers if doing > 220 miles in single trip.
Battery life - Battery apparently can do almost 500K miles. Probably trade in for the latest Model say when its 5-8 years old so wont be any problem as that will be under the 8yr 120k mile warranty.
Interesting to see how its fairing but otherwise its not a Leaf. Huge range - maybe lose 10-20 miles over its life with with me.
Battery life - Battery apparently can do almost 500K miles. Probably trade in for the latest Model say when its 5-8 years old so wont be any problem as that will be under the 8yr 120k mile warranty.
Interesting to see how its fairing but otherwise its not a Leaf. Huge range - maybe lose 10-20 miles over its life with with me.
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