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Charging/Using a US Model S in Europe

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by letsgored, Aug 4, 2016.

  1. Matthew Hill

    Matthew Hill Member

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    Does it matter? The NA Tesla plug is proprietary, and we seem to get along. So use that plug globally and sell adapters to type 1, type 2, Chademo, whatever. OR, use the type 2 plug in NA. I wouldn't mind if my Tesla came with a type 2 socket, a UMC with a type 2 plug on the end, and appropriate adapters, and Superchargers everywhere were type 2. What do I care what plug is on the car, as long as the stuff that comes with it fits? The Tesla proprietary plug is smaller and more elegant, true, but what they have now with different cords & plugs everywhere is the worst solution.
     
  2. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    I think it matters because the type 2 plug is bigger if i am not mistaken. More importantly its 3-phase, where as the US one is single phase.

    So if you're going to standardise, it should be the EU standard since you cannot turn 3-phases in to 1, whereas you can get single phase from 3.

    The whole point of Tesla adopting EU standards for EU was to allow for 3-phase / Type 2 charging, which is much faster than what you get in the US. If I'm not mistaken, the max you can charge in the US with A/C power is 240v and 40amps, so 9.6kw. In Europe I believe you can do either 22 or 44kw from 32 or 64amp 3-phase charge point.

    I am in a similar situation to the OP, as I too own a US import Tesla Model S and am unable to use SuperChargers or 3-phase outlets. But for the kind of driving I do, it's not a big deal for me to be honest, and given there are no SpC here in LT, I'm not missing out much. Chademo is fast enough for what I need.
     
  3. Brass Guy

    Brass Guy Active Member

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    That's close: US models can charge at 240V 40A or 80A (48A or 72A for newer models) so 9.6kW or 19.2kW (11.5kW or 17kW). That's still less than half the 3-phase EU rate.
     
  4. miimura

    miimura Active Member

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    He was wrong on the Tesla 3-phase capability also. It is 16 amps or 32 amps (11kW or 22kW) for classic single/dual chargers and 16 amps or 24 amps (11kW or 16.5kW) for the newer cars.
     
  5. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    How is 19.2kW less than half of 22kW?
     
  6. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Am I missing something?

    In Europe there are 3-phase chargers, typically 32amps. (220v * 32amp) * 3-phase = 22kw.

    In US, at best you can use the NEMA 14-50 socket and get 240v @ 40amps = 9.6kw.

    9.6kw is less than half of 22kw.

    But apparently newer models can charge at upto 80amps, but I am not aware of any sockets that come with the UMC that can handle that kind of current. If 80amps is really possible, then it would be 19.2kw, so not much slower than standard 3-phase in Europe.

    With that in mind, the Type2 car charger outlets can support 44kw (64amps * 240v 3-phase). Do new EU teslas support that? If yes, then again, it's double the US A/C charging capacity.
     
  7. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    Right, I am familiar with Europe having the 3 phase 22kW charging pretty widely available.

    Not quite right about North American charging. Even the Tesla Roadster could charge at 70A. And with the Model S, that is not a new thing at all. Right from the beginning in 2012 it had the option to accept up to 80A if you ordered the second charger in the car, which gave it the 19.2kW. That was actually a little frustration with the Model X having only a 72A charger available as its fastest, which is only 17.3kW, and then that change was put on the updated version of Model S as well. Usually an updated later version would not have a lower capability.
     
  8. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    I forgot to answer this part at first. There are outlet types that can go above 40A, but the UMC is not made for that; 40A is as high as it goes. With hard-wired wall connectors, there are some that can connect to a 100A circuit and provide 80A to the car. The Tesla wall connector does this, or several models of J1772 charging stations, which the north american cars include an adapter for.
     
  9. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Having 2 chargers does not mean it can take 80amps. It means it can take 2 separate 40amp loads, which is completely different. Besides, the point is that if you are going to go for a standardized plug/socket, it would make sense to use EU standard (type2) since it is 3-phase by default, whereas US chargers are singe-phase. Therefore, it couldn't be a standard.
     
  10. davewill

    davewill Active Member

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    Huh? It pulls 80a on the one plug. Why does it matter whether it uses two chargers or 10 chargers to do so? The EU model also needed two chargers to do 22kW.
     
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  11. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    My bad. For some reason I thought that meant 2 separate connections rather than a single A/C supply. My mistake.
     
  12. ragrawa3

    ragrawa3 Member

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    Hello,

    I am moving to Germany for two years. Any recommendations on where to buy the adapters you are mentioning? Also any recommendations on shipping and insurance companies to use? What about adapting car to EU standards?
     
  13. randvegeta

    randvegeta Member

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    Not sure what adaptors you are referring. The main one you will need is the Chademo adaptor. This will be by far the most useful if you ever plan to do any kind of long distance travelling. You won't be able to use the super charger network at all, and there are no EU->US super charger adaptors (that I know of).

    I have the following adaptors:

    - Chademo
    - EU (Shucko) -> USA
    - 3P+N+E (Red Industrial) -> Nema 14-50 (You probably need to build this yourself)
    - Type 2 (Mennekes) -> Type 1 (J1772) + J1771 -> Tesla (The J1772 -> Tesla adaptor should be included with your car).

    You will be able to charge at the aproximate rates respectively.

    - 40-50kw (200+km/h)
    - 12A @ 220v || 2.6kW (12km/h)
    - 32A @ 220v || 7kw (35km/h)
    - 32A @ 220v || 7kw (35km/h)

    Bare in mind that the Nema 14-50 connector will try and pull 40amps when the socket may only be able to supply 32. You need to set a lower rate of charge in the car itself to stop the switch from tripping.

    You will be able to charge in almost any situation with the above.

    No advise as for shipping/insurance, sorry.

    You WILL need to modify the car to comply with EU standards. You will need to adjust the lights and reflectors. No idea where to get that done in Germany but I assume a Tesla service station can handle that for you. No idea where to buy these things in Germany. I live in Lithuania, and I found a local supplier for charging equipment that I could cables from. Ordered the US Chademo adaptor over the internet, and I made my own Nema 14-50 adaptor. If you need help with this, let me know. I can make one for you if you pay for parts + and shipping. It's not too expensive compared to the Chademo adaptor or even the Type2->Type1 cable.
     
  14. raetser

    raetser Member

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  15. ZeusF1

    ZeusF1 Member

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  16. davewill

    davewill Active Member

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    Except for the radio signal, that wouldn't be different from using a regular Type 1 cable and the Tesla J1772 adapter, right?
     
  17. ledoov

    ledoov New Member

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    does anyone here have experience with this adapter? I'm still confused about all this and the options. I was under impression that the USA models have a different chipset controlling the charging and was not compatible with Europe outside of the plugs not being the same. Is that not the case and as simple as getting one of these adapters?
     
  18. ledoov

    ledoov New Member

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    On another note for this specific USA to France thread.

    do you know the cost to get the car approved to drive in France after it is at the port of entry? Homologation Is what it is called. Then I was told Tesla france would be able to change headlights and reflectors for france by Tesla USA.

    this is what I got from a Tesla tech after I bugged them to help me:

    Apologies for taking this long to get back to you, I was trying to gather as much info as possible as we don’t have a department or even a specific person I can direct you to for this situation. While France is a core market for Tesla, your US Model 3 will be largely unsupported there for the following reasons:


    US and EU Tesla charge plugs are different and not interchangeable, and they also use different voltage and phase. You may be able to use a CHAdeMO or j1772 adapter at public stations but your charging speeds will likely be far less than they are here, and Tesla cannot guarantee the functionality of these methods. With the difference in plug you will also not be able to use the Tesla Supercharger or Destination charger network around the EU. There’s no way to change the charge port, as the hardware in the battery is different between the markets as well.


    Cellular connection and GPS/NAV will not work. You can use a wifi hotspot but premium features such as streaming radio will be inoperable.


    Because France is a core market they will service your Model 3 to the best of their ability, however due to differences in software and hardware there may be some things they cannot do. All work performed will also be customer pay regardless of warranty status. Service bulletins are customer pay as well, however recalls will be covered as long as the service center has the correct tools and parts.
     
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