Charging with a gas generator?

[jboy210]

Makes sense. But I would hate to be in the same campground with that thing roaring away all night.

If it were next to me in a campground it would not be roaring all night. Around 10 PM a sharp crack would occur followed by the blissful sound of silence.

 

[JBee]

If it was properly integrated into the vehicle as a range extender there would be no reason to run it much in the evenings as it could charge as it drove. I'm surprised no-one has done a range extender generator for them yet, especially in the colder regions where the waste heat would be useful to extend range as well.

 

[brkaus]

Generators are fine.

many have a floating neutral. It will need to be bonded to the ground.

May need to manually increase amps slowly so the generator has time to react without reducing voltage. The car might detect a voltage reduction as a line issue.

 

[JBee]

Ground is mostly used for fault protection as both the neutral and earth are connected via a MEN in the fusebox, or at the local AC transformer. It's highly likely the vehicle will measure neutral to earth potentials, so connecting them would probably be a good idea.
Depending on the type of generator it would be best to ramp the charge levels over a short period. Older generators with AVR type control will probably work a bit better than a under speced "inverter" type generator. But saying that is a bit generic, each would need to be tested individually. Ideally a dedicated DC range extender would be made.

Who wants one? Would it need to fit in other models or just the CT?

 

[LoBoT3]

If it was properly integrated into the vehicle as a range extender there would be no reason to run it much in the evenings as it could charge as it drove. I'm surprised no-one has done a range extender generator for them yet, especially in the colder regions where the waste heat would be useful to extend range as well.

We'd then call it an hybrid ! No ?
A consider Tesla non maintenance one of the major advantages. Having a ice generator in such a truck would be, for me a show stopper.

 

[JBee]

Hybrid indeed. What do you mean by a show stopper?
Sustainability has no dependency on battery technology.

 

[bolero]

Portable Electric Vehicle Charger | Eliminating Range Anxiety | SparkCharge
DCFC Chademo power pack modular.

 

[JBee]

Portable Electric Vehicle Charger | Eliminating Range Anxiety | SparkCharge
DCFC Chademo power pack modular.

Thanks for the link. That's interesting but not really that useful where power generally isn't available, for example for 4X4 overlanding in the CT. In general I expect the CT to have poor sand and mud driving ranges where energy consumption around 1kW/mile is the norm, that's just the nature of the vehicle, and it's limited energy density. One of those battery modules would last just 3.5miles at that rate, and would be the equivalent of about 1L of fuel in a geny. Doesn't mean the CT won't work for periodical, short distances over off road terrain to gain access to places or over harder surfaces. It just means it won't do things like the Simpson desert or any of the other stock routes anytime soon (without a fuel powered generator).

 

[drtimhill]

This is actually a clever idea .. charging the car from a generator. Pure genius. Maybe they could build the generator into the car? Even better, since the generator can directly generate mechanical torque, you could connect it directly to the wheels for more efficiency. I might patent this! Who knows ... if it's successful we could have dozens .. no .. THOUSANDS of stores selling this liquid fuel!!

 

[Bigjohn892]

Yesterday I used my Tesla as a variable test load for a new 8kW (propane) generator. View attachment 480959View attachment 480960

Thanks for the pics. That is the same generator I have for camping.
To others who think it is stupid, this is in case I run low on power to get to a charger when camping. (Remember phantom drain in cold weather!)

 

[keeney]

Some of these vehicle-mounted generator models (designed for RVs) meet National Park Service sound level limits.
Available in Gas, Diesel, or LPG fuels. Up to 12kw (100 amps @ 120vac). Consumes 1.3 Gallons/hour at full load. Weighs under 800 lbs. Combine with a 100 gallon diesel tank (apx 750 lbs full) and you could add 900 kwh to your total available electrical energy and only use about 1600lbs of your payload capacity.

https://powersuite.cummins.com/PS5/...nary_Asset/pdf/Consumer/specsheets/a-1483.pdf

On the small end of the scale, a 2.8 kw unit weighs only 125 lbs and consumes 0.5 gallons per hour (which is less efficient than the diesel unit).

https://powersuite.cummins.com/PS5/...pdf/Consumer/specsheets/NAS-5501-EN-Final.pdf

 

[budtoh3zo]

Im planning on looking at trying this, I got a 5.5KW with 240, As i only typically travel 200 miles a day but sit in my truck for 10 hrs plus somedays, so just need a back up to make sure i make it home. This was a solid week of this so need to keep the battery warm and myself.

 

[$TRONG]

I feel like I’m the only one who understands what the OP is even talking about. Either that or some serious point shitters here lol. It’s not about making the truck something it wasn’t designed to be, or making a permanent hybrid, or pissing off campers, or desperately finding ways to burn liquid fuel (the devil), or fully charging it.
It’s about flexibility to make a little bit of extra range, once or twice, ever, or infrequently, for a little safety margin in the back woods.
btw solar armchair experts, solar panels only work in sun, I know, weird, and cars are often not in full sun! So the so,ar roof, while a great idea for daily use while parked at work for instance, is not a feasible way to make range when camping, as 9 times out of 10 your car will be in shade. So, a little Honda gennie in the bed, running for a few hours, just gives a few miles and maybe the difference between fun and bummed. Also, a 2000w Honda in the back of a truck is imperceptible at about 20’ or less. They burn clean(ish) and if the math indicated above is correct, it’s quite an efficient way to get the goal of usable power imo.
It’s a brilliant idea. And it’s actually implemented in the bmw i3 right from the factory.

 

[BM3B]

I am happy to share that I was able to get my model 3 to charge from my new inverter generator today. I charged at a steady 10 miles per hour, 2.83 kW for my P3- on 19", 24A @ 118A. It costs ~$0.63 per kWh for $3 per gallon gas.

Why did I buy a generator? The main reason was backup power for my fridge and electronics since my house power in LA goes out way more often than it should, about 3-5 times per year. The longest it's been off was 10 hours. The secondary reason was to charge my Tesla if the power went out. I did some research, this site was helpful:
https://generatorgrid.com/blog/tesla/

I learned that you have to use an inverter generator that produces a clean sine wave, this means the Total Harmonic Distortion (THD) is less than 5%. Most normal generators have THD of 20-30%, so called "dirty power". I choose the Generac GP3500IO inverter generator, it has an open frame and can put out up to 3 kW max running power, 25A @ 120V.
Generac Power Systems - 3500iO watt GP Series Portable Generator - 5982

I bought a "surge guard generator neutral" plug on Amazon, without it the Tesla won't charge from a Generac. I think Hondas may not need this plug.
https://www.amazon.com/Southwire-Co...or+Neutral&qid=1588226816&s=automotive&sr=1-1

Finally, to get the 24A in a single plug I bought a L5-30 120V adapter, it plugs into my mobile charging cable.
L5-30 120V Adapter for Tesla Model S/X/3 Gen 2 – EVSE Adapters

I followed the instructions on the website listed above as well as the manual. The generator started right up (add oil first), it's quieter than the other open frame generators, but is not whisper quiet. I measured 72-76 dB from 20-30 feet away. Procedure: start the generator with nothing plugged in, once running plug in the ground plug into one of the normal 12A outlets, plug in the L5 adapter connected to your Tesla, and start charging.

Summary:
10 miles per hour charging (4 miles per kWh for my P3-)
24A @ 118V = 2.83 kW charging power
Can charge 40 miles on one tank, which will take 4 hours.
$0.63 per kWh assuming $3 per gallon gas (much more expensive than the $0.13 per kWh that I pay overnight)
19 miles per gallon (I was shocked how low this is!)

 

[Kevy Baby]

Excellent post @BM3B! This is the type of post that should be a sticky.

 

[enzo]

Tesla will need to address the generator issue upon launch of CyTruck in order to win over most pickup owners. The primary concern will not be getting stuck in a remote area, but prolonged electric outages at home. Pickups are often tied to their owner's livelihood or sense of security, so no less than 100% reliability/uptime will be accepted.

Most likely, Tesla should provide a clear statement that inverter generators will not damage the vehicle. Even better would be to upgrade the onboard charger and software to be able to detect input power with high THD, display the THD on screen and help the owner understand what issues it poses, if any. Obviously, it's very unlikely Tesla would offer a generator as a vehicle accessory, although I think it would sell well with CyTruck.

 

[eladts]

Tesla will need to address the generator issue upon launch of CyTruck in order to win over most pickup owners. The primary concern will not be getting stuck in a remote area, but prolonged electric outages at home. Pickups are often tied to their owner's livelihood or sense of security, so no less than 100% reliability/uptime will be accepted.

Most likely, Tesla should provide a clear statement that inverter generators will not damage the vehicle. Even better would be to upgrade the onboard charger and software to be able to detect input power with high THD, display the THD on screen and help the owner understand what issues it poses, if any. Obviously, it's very unlikely Tesla would offer a generator as a vehicle accessory, although I think it would sell well with CyTruck.

You assume that fuel for a generator will be readily available during prolonged electrical outages. This assumption is often wrong. This was evident during the winter storm in Texas. I personally witnessed that during the Ike hurricane in Houston. There were half-mile long lines in the gas stations that remained opened.

 

[nwdiver]

You assume that fuel for a generator will be readily available during prolonged electrical outages. This assumption is often wrong. This was evident during the winter storm in Texas. I personally witnessed that during the Ike hurricane in Houston. There were half-mile long lines in the gas stations that remained opened.

Plenty of sunshine though Even when it's cloudy I can charge my car.

 

[brucet999]

Plenty of sunshine though Even when it's cloudy I can charge my car.

Not during an ice and snowstorm, and you can't effectively charge your car during a power outage at the low output of a Powerwall, even assuming that you are set up to shift from Grid to storage. But you would likely need that Powerwall storage to run critical devices like furnace, fridge, lights, etc.

 

[nwdiver]

Not during an ice and snowstorm, and you can't effectively charge your car during a power outage at the low output of a Powerwall, even assuming that you are set up to shift from Grid to storage. But you would likely need that Powerwall storage to run critical devices like furnace, fridge, lights, etc.

How long do those usually last? And it's not like we don't have days to make sure everything is charged up before hand. Afterwards sunshine is typically FAR more abundant that fools fuel. Point being there's really no value to a generator when the fuel it needs will be hard to come by.

And even during the storm I was able to produce ~15kWh/day from my array. That's good for ~40 miles. How far do you expect to drive when roads are impassible?

A neighbor bottomed out at ~24kWh.