Cheated

[K-MTG]

Just because HW 2 is out that doesn't mean HW 1 will no longer be supported (it's not Android). Yes, I am disappointed that summon on HW 1 isn't as advanced as Elon/Tesla advertised but it still is being improved and more functionality is added with each update. Elon delivers everything he promises just not on time.

If I bought a new Tesla today, I would order both enhanced autopilot and self driving. If I leased, I would order enhanced autopilot and purchased self driving once released.

 

[neroden]

Just ignore the Tesla apologists.

I've made my views very clear. I think Tesla still has no reasonable competition. In cars, there's a few choices in China and arguably the Bolt; in purchasing experience, everyone else selling in the US is using dealerships, which is hopelessly awful. As a result, of course it gets the best rating; when your competition is that pathetic, you have to.

But once competition arrives (2019? 2020? 2022? 2024? Whenever Faraday Future gets a car out? When BYD brings cars to the US?), this sort of overpromise-underdeliver is going to bite Tesla in the ass if they haven't fixed it. It's a problem with corporate culture, and it can be hard to fix corporate culture, so it ought to be fixed before it becomes entrenched and before the company grows really large. As an investor for the long haul, I'm watching this *growing problem* and hoping they can fix it.

It may already be too late. But I hope not.

 

[schonelucht]

If you bothered to read my post, I agreed the rollout should be more clear.

It isn't very helpful to those who are upset about something that the company legitimately handled badly (as you agree), to explain that in other cases the company did the right thing. It's like saying to a girl who just saw her man kissing someone else that it ain't all bad because he bought her nice flowers last week. That may be true but it offers nothing in terms of resolution or closure on the current issue.

It just is very difficult for some people (and that includes you) to acknowledge that Tesla is really not perfect in one area without resorting to qualifiers how it is outstanding in another. It's a perfect mirror of the anti-Tesla fora where a lot of people can't get to acknowledge something that Tesla really executed well on without listing where they failed in a promise.

 

[bonnie]

Not going to respond other than to say others can read my post & decide for themselves if your little analogy is accurate.

 

[vandacca]

This is the problem, as I see it. There are 2 types of people in this world:
(a) Those that want instant gratification and
(b) Those that think long-term.

The ones upset with the current situation are in group (a). The other group can't understand what the fuss is all about.

Tesla is definitely not for everyone. If you're in group (a), then it would be best to wait until Tesla becomes a more mature car company. If you're in group (a) and already own a Tesla, you have to decide if you can change your mindset or it would be best to sell what you've got and move on.

 

[ABC2D]

This is the problem, as I see it. There are 2 types of people in this world:
(a) Those that want instant gratification and
(b) Those that think long-term.

The ones upset with the current situation are in group (a). The other group can't understand what the fuss is all about.

Tesla is definitely not for everyone. If you're in group (a), then it would be best to wait until Tesla becomes a more mature car company. If you're in group (a) and already own a Tesla, you have to decide if you can change your mindset or it would be best to sell what you've got and move on.

Really? Those are your classifications? That's not logical fallacy at all, LOL.

Nicely bent!

 

[vandacca]

Really? Those are your classifications? That's not logical fallacy at all, LOL.

Nicely bent!

What are you trying to say? I don't see any case/argument being made.

To reiterate my position, someone who is upset that a certain feature does not yet exist, yet it is expected in the coming weeks/months, must be wanting instant gratification. Do you disagree?

Also, I wouldn't recommend Tesla to individuals that are expecting a fully mature product. This is a "bleeding edge" product, with all the disadvantages that come with it.

 

[Economite]

To reiterate my position, someone who is upset that a certain feature does not yet exist, yet it is expected in the coming weeks/months, must be wanting instant gratification. Do you disagree?

I think it's more accurate to say that someone who is upset that a certain feature doesn't exist yet feels like they are owed what the company has said (admittedly using language with wiggle room) it would deliver on the schedule that the company has said or implied it will be delivered.

This overpromising is a really bad practice. It leaves Tesla constantly in the position of either (I) going back on what it has advertised, promised, or implied or (ii) releasing promised features more or less on time, but not really functioning fully. It's not good that the company keeps putting out half-baked car control software. They shouldn't promise (or charge for) stuff in advance, and then they should only deliver stuff once it is fully tested and works well.

As an example of how their practice can go awry: Intellivision - Wikipedia (see Keyboard Component section)

 

[vandacca]

Apparently, there are 3 types of people in this world. Those that are good at math, and those that are not.

 

[ABC2D]

What are you trying to say? I don't see any case/argument being made.

Exactly my point.

To reiterate my position, someone who is upset that a certain feature does not yet exist, yet it is expected in the coming weeks/months, must be wanting instant gratification. Do you disagree

"a certain feature does not yet exist" - auto dimming headlights? rain sensing wipers? blind spot assist? adaptive cruise control? Are these the "non-existent" features are you referring to? (I specifically left out others which might even remotely be argued as affected by "subject to regulatory approval")

"it is expected in the coming weeks/months" - no, not week nor moths. In December 2016:

No, that's not "instant gratification", so, yes, I disagree.

I think your two group of people need to be expended a bit, perhapls add these:

• Those who reads "expected" and, actually, expect it
• Those who read "and be rolled out to your car via over-the-air update in December 2016" and actually expect it in December 2016
• Those who reads "subject to regulatory approval" and keep referring to it out as the reason for the delay even though the regulatory approval has absolutely nothing to do with the functions discussed

What is wrong with expecting a product you paid for to work as advertised by the date advertised? Is that instant gratification?

It is sad that "This is a "bleeding edge" product, with all the disadvantages that come with it" becoming so easily and widely accepted.

 

[⚡️ELECTROMAN⚡️]

What would be sad is if it really bothers you not having these features and the delay you are experiencing in getting them. Nothing wrong with keeping Tesla in check, but are you seriously bothered? I'm glad I'm not. I let a lot of small things bother me, but these just seem like non-issues in the whole scheme of things.

 

[vandacca]

"a certain feature does not yet exist" - auto dimming headlights? rain sensing wipers? blind spot assist? adaptive cruise control? Are these the "non-existent" features are you referring to? (I specifically left out others which might even remotely be argued as affected by "subject to regulatory approval")

"it is expected in the coming weeks/months" - no, not week nor moths. In December 2016:

No, that's not "instant gratification", so, yes, I disagree.

I think your two group of people need to be expended a bit, perhapls add these:

• Those who reads "expected" and, actually, expect it
• Those who read "and be rolled out to your car via over-the-air update in December 2016" and actually expect it in December 2016
• Those who reads "subject to regulatory approval" and keep referring to it out as the reason for the delay even though the regulatory approval has absolutely nothing to do with the functions discussed

What is wrong with expecting a product you paid for to work as advertised by the date advertised? Is that instant gratification?

It is sad that "This is a "bleeding edge" product, with all the disadvantages that come with it" becoming so easily and widely accepted.

You have valid concerns and expectations, so I'm not criticizing you in any way.

It's just that Tesla is not at a point where it would be a good match for many people that expect a fully baked product, right out of the box. Same thing happened with the Model-S, it was missing lots of stuff (eg. didn't have AutoPilot for a whole year after the hardware was introduced).

Having said that, Tesla has left itself wiggle room by stating, "...software is expected to complete validation...". I'm not saying that they are right in setting people's expectations for December 2016 and missing them by at least 9 days, but in the grand scheme of things, they are only 9 days late for about 1000 customers. For the remaining customers, it seems like they will have been 2 weeks late. It's a long way from being a few weeks late to what happened with the Intellivision Keyboard.

Tesla really needs to learn to under-promise and over-deliver. But hopefully more people now know some of the weaknesses of this little company. You have to decide whether it's worth it and stick with Tesla or move on (at least until they have time to mature and get a handle on things).

Bleeding Edge customers are used to this and have the patience to wait it out, knowing that it will eventually work itself out. Also, it helps to be tech-savvy at times because bugs causes issues that need to be debugged. Maybe you didn't know, but you'll probably need to perform a restart of the console and/or instrument-cluster from time-to-time. There is even a whole thread dedicated to resetting and calibrating different parts of the car.

This car is definitely not for everyone. Definitely not for my wife.

 

[Darren Donovan]

We all have to realize Tesla is in its infancy

Lol, when is Tesla leaving the "infancy" stage? Seems like they've been stuck there forever.

People who let a salesman say anything without checking it out are fairly naive.
.

Isn't Tesla supposed to be much better than this? I mean, we dislike traditional car dealerships dealerships because of the "salesmen". Tesla don't employ salesmen getting paid on commision.

 

[Canuck]

Lol, when is Tesla leaving the "infancy" stage? Seems like they've been stuck there forever.

Yes, past infancy and now at the toddler stage.

Isn't Tesla supposed to be much better than this? I mean, we dislike traditional car dealerships dealerships because of the "salesmen". Tesla don't employ salesmen getting paid on commision.

It always amazes me when people think corporations are "better than this". Any little amount of good a corporation does surprises me, and Tesla does so much more than others. Did you also buy into this?:

Because to me, what Apple ridiculed in its 1984 Super Bowl commercial (IBM) is exactly what it has become, plus much more. That should not surprise us but be expected. It is for me at least.

 

[Darren Donovan]

Canuck: I never bought into the "Tesla is so much better than traditional dealerships" because frankly, I never had any bad experience with them. I fully expect that in the future, Tesla will have to behave more like the old school dealerships to survive.

 

[Chrisizzle]

Tesla don't employ salesmen getting paid on commision.

Well, that's probably only accurate by a technicality. I said that to my Salesman last month during my recent purchase ("You're not on commission, right?) and he was surprisingly forthcoming. He said 'there were incentives' and something like 'you don't eat if you don't hustle.'

So, perhaps Tesla pays a salary to keep sales people from starving but giving any kind of payment or reward based on quantity of cars sold could inspire staff to look out for themselves over the customer.

That isn't to say I felt pressured. My sales guy went the extra mile to help me decide but ultimately seemed indifferent... in a good way.

 

[jelloslug]

There are many people that bought a Model S/X that would have been much better off with a Lexus instead....

 

[Canuck]

There are many people that bought a Model S/X that would have been much better off with a Lexus instead....

Your point? Can't you say that about most purchases? It's not like there's some divine force that directs people to the best product for them.

 

[schonelucht]

Tesla don't employ salesmen getting paid on commision.

Actually, this is not true anymore. Recently the pay for Tesla salespeople became partially performance based.

 

[trmmcd]

Wow. This is quite a thread.

I bought my X outright and I have AP1 and am very happy with it. I am little disappointed that there is no likely path to upgrade to AP2, but have thoroughly enjoyed the time I have had with the car and expect to do so going forward. I am jealous of those who will soon get to enjoy AP2.

As for the controversy around the AP2 rollout - there was plenty of information available for purchasers to understand what AP 2 was all about and what to expect. Having said that - it is really unfortunate if Tesla sales people were not able to have an accurate level set with purchasers so there were no surprises. It seems as if they chose not to read the Tesla official blog - or worse - read it and didn't disclose it to prospective customers. Tesla does need to clean this up going forward.

For those waiting - it sounds like AP1 level functionality is right around the corner - so be patient. Then you will really enjoy the future feature enhancements that will roll out over time.