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Cheated

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Your point? Can't you say that about most purchases? It's not like there's some divine force that directs people to the best product for them.
My point is that the current Tesla cars are not without fault and if you are not willing to deal with the issues of cutting edge tech, a brand new car company with a growing support system, and a less than mature supply chain you should look else were.
 
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Some people are buying Teslas because they are the hot new thing and have no idea how to use them properly.

That's right, man! Tell us self–righteously what we should or should not buy, if we are using it properly or not, and since you're at it, teach us what faults and defects we should or should not accept.

self-righteousness.jpg
 
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Some people are buying Teslas because they are the hot new thing and have no idea how to use them properly.
@jelloslug - I agree. There are some people who buy a Tesla to show off like they bought a Ferrari. However, they aren't willing to deal with a growing company and a totally different Silicon Valley culture of cutting edge technologies, software bugs etc. They should have bought a Ferrari.
 
Ignore this poster. Must be shorting TSLA

That's not fair. He makes a valid point that we are now far past the early adopters and many people who are buying a Tesla may be doing so blindly without understanding exactly what they are getting into, and when they do, they may have been better off with a Lexus. I don't think he's making a judgement or value call about what is better, he's just stating it as a fact. While you may disagree with his position, saying he's shorting and to ignore him is unfair. It's better to counter his argument with your position than to attack him personally.
 
He makes a valid point that we are now far past the early adopters and many people who are buying a Tesla may be doing so blindly without understanding exactly what they are getting into, and when they do, they may have been better off with a Lexus.

Seems like these problem stems from more than just the OTA updates and Tesla's habit of selling (and marketing) features that aren't yet available. A lot of the confusion that occurs with these disappointed purchasers seems to stem from Tesla's unique sales process.

With other companies, you get to test drive the actual car you will own before you buy it. That ensures that there isn't much confusion about what the purchased car can and cannot do (and also ensures that you know the actual condition of your specific purchased car).

With Tesla, folks at best buy a car based on a test drive of a demo unit, then order and pay for the car they want, and only at the end of the process get to see their actual car (which may wind up being a later version than what was test drove and sometimes is configured with options that weren't even available at the time of the test drive). That leads to situations where folks are surprised by their cars. Even with inventory purchases, it seems like a lot of inventory cars are purchased first, and then delivered from one part of the country to another. Those purchasers don't test drive their actual cars until after their purchase either.
 
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Does anyone else who order a tesla with hw2 feel lied to? The autopilot is disabled, the current release seems to be a beta version which doesn't come close to original autopilot, the automatic wipers don't even work. Parity with original auto pilot was promised mid December. This car is over 100,000 and not working as promised. .

As an AP1 car owner I feel more cheated that I have no upgrade path to AP2 for my car. Many people may not agree with me but I find AP1 to be insufficient enough that I rarely use it, and if so more out of curiosity than utility.

Since I'm not using it anyway I would much rather have AP2 and know that I'm at least on the path to a fully featured system.
 
As an AP1 car owner I feel more cheated that I have no upgrade path to AP2 for my car. Many people may not agree with me but I find AP1 to be insufficient enough that I rarely use it, and if so more out of curiosity than utility.

Since I'm not using it anyway I would much rather have AP2 and know that I'm at least on the path to a fully featured system.

I think it all comes down to what your expectations are, and timing plays a huge role in this.

When I bought my car I was happy to get TACC let alone everything else that followed. This was way back in the middle of 2015 which doesn't seem like a long time ago, but it is in the technology centric circles.

I was a pretty happy camper even though it was just TACC without lane keeping, summons, or any park assist stuff. Sure like a lot of my peers I complained on here about how long the lane keeping element of AP was taking. But, it wasn't of the "cheated" variety of complaining, but more of impatience.

Maybe part of that happiness was the excitement of what comes next. Where I knew that any day it would be christmas, and we'd get all sorts of new and exciting features.

Part of the excitement was also the newness of it all. We didn't really know how this would impact our driving, or what psychological elements would come into play with a Level II car. It was like a giant experiment that I was a part of. A story I could tell my future robot kids about.

The ownership experience was as much about the adventure as it was about the car itself.

Now I feel a bit of sadness as that journey is coming to a close, and we only have one or two more significant enhancements coming to AP1.

The reality is also different these days since it's being watched like a hawk, and it feels like there is less freedom to innovate. There is a lot more handholding to it all now days.

I don't feel a whole lot of jealousy towards AP2 quite yet. I think a lot that has to do with just how far it needs to come to reach parity since Tesla had to basically start from scratch. For an AP2 owner the next 6 months isn't going to be easy. Whether they like it or not they're essentially beta testers. Sure AP1 had some issues on occasion, but there is a big difference between having an established base like what MobileEye offered versus building all that from scratch. There were some beta elements of AP1, but the initial versions weren't nearly as bad the recent AP2 release (the false collision warnings, tacc slow downs and roughness, etc).

I think Tesla understands that so much of their value/future is riding on software that they hired a very Software orientated guy from Apple. So I do expect the Tesla code to get a lot better over the next year or so. It's going be a bit of a battle for the next 6 months where AP2 owners are going to be submitting all sorts of bug reports. Probably won't be exactly what they thought they were signing up for.

But, after 6 months or so it's going to start getting really exciting for AP2 owners as EAP features start to roll on top of a more proven out base.

There are still a lot of unknowns though. We don't really know if the AP2 hardware/software will reach a level where it really makes a sizable difference over AP1. Does it really make a difference if you still have to hold the steering wheel? or if you have to be concerned that summons will screw up once out of 100 times?

So I'm going to sit on the sidelines while this whole thing plays out. Much like a lot of things in life it's all about the timing of when to jump in. Having AP1 while on the sidelines isn't bad at all.

It's gong to be a long journey from AP1 to something really useful, and that might not be AP2.
 
There does need to be some clearer guidance in the Design Studio. Something that flags up that this is far from a normal vehicle.

At the moment it's too easy to look at the S and think "yeah, kinda like a big Audi/Jaguar/Merc but electric, cool" *click* whereas people need to be guided towards thinking "hmmmm, kinda like a really, really, REALLY expensive computer - hardware and software will be changing every few months; some of it subject to regulatory approval - so I can't assume that these options are fixed or even available right now and future developments may cause issues with backwards compatibility"

In spite of all the cross-hiring between Tesla and Apple it's difficult to adopt such gestalt thinking. Particularly when shopping.
 
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I think it all comes down to what your expectations are, and timing plays a huge role in this.

When I bought my car I was happy to get TACC let alone everything else that followed. This was way back in the middle of 2015 which doesn't seem like a long time ago, but it is in the technology centric circles.

I was a pretty happy camper even though it was just TACC without lane keeping, summons, or any park assist stuff. Sure like a lot of my peers I complained on here about how long the lane keeping element of AP was taking. But, it wasn't of the "cheated" variety of complaining, but more of impatience.

Maybe part of that happiness was the excitement of what comes next. Where I knew that any day it would be christmas, and we'd get all sorts of new and exciting features.

Part of the excitement was also the newness of it all. We didn't really know how this would impact our driving, or what psychological elements would come into play with a Level II car. It was like a giant experiment that I was a part of. A story I could tell my future robot kids about.

The ownership experience was as much about the adventure as it was about the car itself.

Now I feel a bit of sadness as that journey is coming to a close, and we only have one or two more significant enhancements coming to AP1.

The reality is also different these days since it's being watched like a hawk, and it feels like there is less freedom to innovate. There is a lot more handholding to it all now days.

I don't feel a whole lot of jealousy towards AP2 quite yet. I think a lot that has to do with just how far it needs to come to reach parity since Tesla had to basically start from scratch. For an AP2 owner the next 6 months isn't going to be easy. Whether they like it or not they're essentially beta testers. Sure AP1 had some issues on occasion, but there is a big difference between having an established base like what MobileEye offered versus building all that from scratch. There were some beta elements of AP1, but the initial versions weren't nearly as bad the recent AP2 release (the false collision warnings, tacc slow downs and roughness, etc).

I think Tesla understands that so much of their value/future is riding on software that they hired a very Software orientated guy from Apple. So I do expect the Tesla code to get a lot better over the next year or so. It's going be a bit of a battle for the next 6 months where AP2 owners are going to be submitting all sorts of bug reports. Probably won't be exactly what they thought they were signing up for.

But, after 6 months or so it's going to start getting really exciting for AP2 owners as EAP features start to roll on top of a more proven out base.

There are still a lot of unknowns though. We don't really know if the AP2 hardware/software will reach a level where it really makes a sizable difference over AP1. Does it really make a difference if you still have to hold the steering wheel? or if you have to be concerned that summons will screw up once out of 100 times?

So I'm going to sit on the sidelines while this whole thing plays out. Much like a lot of things in life it's all about the timing of when to jump in. Having AP1 while on the sidelines isn't bad at all.

It's gong to be a long journey from AP1 to something really useful, and that might not be AP2.
Well said!