Definitely not just St. Louis. Here's another report of the alignment machine having problems at a different service center: Post Alignment Issues
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Checked Alignment: The Good, The Bad, The Ugly
- Thread starter Dreamin
- Start date
Definitely not just St. Louis. Here's another report of the alignment machine having problems at a different service center: Post Alignment Issues
strider
Active Member
Adding my data to the thread... Had my first annual this week. Alignment felt fine and got 13.5K out of our initial Conti's with 2 rotations. But I did notice some feathering on the inside edges of the tires so I asked them to check the alignment. They did find the car out of spec. Here's our sheet:
It looks like they tightened up the specs on several of the measurements. However the bad news is that now the car pulls to the right
It's going back in next week for rear seat installation so I'll ask them to look at it again.
It looks like they tightened up the specs on several of the measurements. However the bad news is that now the car pulls to the right
It's going back in next week for rear seat installation so I'll ask them to look at it again.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
A few observations...
First, toe out in the rear. I am at a complete loss to understand why we keep seeing toe out in the rear of these cars as it will kill tires when you add so much camber.
They must have used the new bolts or otherwise took out bolt slop as they did pull camber down in the rear.
Your fronts were pointed when they thought the wheel was straight and now your car pulls. The two may be related.
Lastly, mine pulls to the right just a tad since my last rack visit. I'm going to see if I can throw it up on the SC rack this week for a second opinion on where the wheels are pointed.
First, toe out in the rear. I am at a complete loss to understand why we keep seeing toe out in the rear of these cars as it will kill tires when you add so much camber.
They must have used the new bolts or otherwise took out bolt slop as they did pull camber down in the rear.
Your fronts were pointed when they thought the wheel was straight and now your car pulls. The two may be related.
Lastly, mine pulls to the right just a tad since my last rack visit. I'm going to see if I can throw it up on the SC rack this week for a second opinion on where the wheels are pointed.
strider
Active Member
Thanks for your thoughts and continuing to monitor the thread. Seeing as we got decent life out of our first set of tires and the car has always behaved itself under power I too was surprised by the toe out. We were an early car with factory delivery so can't blame transportation for the toe out. What I don't know is if the toe out has always been there or if the car has come out of adjustment over time. I guess that's one of the fundamental questions we're trying to answer here?
They did use the new bolts to fix the camber - they were listed on the work order.
They did tell me they had to use donor wheels as the alignment machine wouldn't clamp onto our wheels with the Alloy Gators installed. Not sure if that could have caused a problem.
strider
Active Member
Update - they decided the wheel was not straight when they did the alignment the first time. The car now tracks correctly. However they didn't give me the printout from the machine so hopefully they didn't mess up any of the other adjustments.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I'm assuming that was the steering wheel was not straight and not one of the donor wheels was not straight.
strider
Active Member
LuckyLuke
Model S P90DL
My EU P85 needed a drive inverter swap so had to be aligned after the repair was done. Took a pic of the alignment sheet, notice some small differences to US spec posted previously in this thread:
JakeP
S P4996 ==> P02547
Just completed my annual service and had my alignment checked, results below. They also installed new rear camber bolts, per the service invoice, which the Ranger indicated might be a new addition.
I have to wonder if the rear toe is to blame for the inside wear and replacement of my 19" Goodyears after only 10,000 miles. I guess we will see how the new Michelin Primacy compares, once I swap them out for the winter wheels with Michelin Xice Xi3s.
Concern: Customer states: Wheel alignment check, rear toe out? - crazy fishtailing with new winter tires, bad rear inside wear on old tires.
Pay Type: Warranty
Cause: Wheel alignment due for annual.
Correction: Four Wheel Alignment
Performed 4-wheel alignment. Installed new rear camber bolts.
Part
BOLT HF M12x1.75-70 [10.9] 9.8 SHNK
(2007078-01-A)
Qty
2.00
I have to wonder if the rear toe is to blame for the inside wear and replacement of my 19" Goodyears after only 10,000 miles. I guess we will see how the new Michelin Primacy compares, once I swap them out for the winter wheels with Michelin Xice Xi3s.
Concern: Customer states: Wheel alignment check, rear toe out? - crazy fishtailing with new winter tires, bad rear inside wear on old tires.
Pay Type: Warranty
Cause: Wheel alignment due for annual.
Correction: Four Wheel Alignment
Performed 4-wheel alignment. Installed new rear camber bolts.
Part
BOLT HF M12x1.75-70 [10.9] 9.8 SHNK
(2007078-01-A)
Qty
2.00
Positive number is toe-out.
I'm also at a loss to why they would want rear toe-out. I'd think it would decrease stability on the highway with no real benefit? Theoretically it would make the car turn in a bit better at low speed aggressive driving.
Of course, we don't know how the toe changes dynamically. It is possible that the toe-out disappears when the motor is applying torque to the suspension/car.
[UPDATE] The above is backwards. I had a brain fart! Positive numbers are toe-in.
I'm also at a loss to why they would want rear toe-out. I'd think it would decrease stability on the highway with no real benefit? Theoretically it would make the car turn in a bit better at low speed aggressive driving.
Of course, we don't know how the toe changes dynamically. It is possible that the toe-out disappears when the motor is applying torque to the suspension/car.
[UPDATE] The above is backwards. I had a brain fart!
Positive numbers are toe-in.
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No, positive is toe-in, negative is toe-out.
I'm curious as to why the front is now specified with slight toe out - never seen that before on an OEM spec, especially for a RWD car. Usually the front toe-in spec is aims for around 0.1* toe in, not toe out in the front. Are the front tires now going to start wearing faster on the inside shoulder?
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lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
I've seen a little bit of toe out on zero scrub radius front suspensions before (that funky ball joint over the top the tire upright thing that Tesla is using). I have no idea what the thinking is behind it.
As for the rear, whatever polarity Tesla is using is toe in (which is positive == toe in) as no one runs toe out in the rear on the street. We did on the race cars to get them to rotate and boy it worked
As for the rear, whatever polarity Tesla is using is toe in (which is positive == toe in) as no one runs toe out in the rear on the street. We did on the race cars to get them to rotate and boy it worked
L@urens
Family, Racing, Karting, MTBing
Whatever I posted here earlier, was crap. Car has mild toe in all around.
What we did notice is that right camber (0.4f, 2r) was double of what we saw on the right (0.2f, 1r).
Coil suspension.
What we did notice is that right camber (0.4f, 2r) was double of what we saw on the right (0.2f, 1r).
Coil suspension.
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I am starting to suspect these cars go out of alignment very quickly.
Every report I've seen looks like the car has TOW out in the rear.
My car's been aligned 6 times so far,
every report indicates the car has generated TOW out in the rear.
My car was aligned less than six weeks ago, driven carefully
and I can tell by running a straight edge down the wheel
the car has moved its rear Tow angle.
Keep in mind this car has a wider track in the back.
When observing the alignment when proper
the straight edge should be inside the outside edge of the front wheels.
I'm taking my car in for alignment again.
I will publish reports Sunday
Every report I've seen looks like the car has TOW out in the rear.
My car's been aligned 6 times so far,
every report indicates the car has generated TOW out in the rear.
My car was aligned less than six weeks ago, driven carefully
and I can tell by running a straight edge down the wheel
the car has moved its rear Tow angle.
Keep in mind this car has a wider track in the back.
When observing the alignment when proper
the straight edge should be inside the outside edge of the front wheels.
I'm taking my car in for alignment again.
I will publish reports Sunday
There is a service bulletin to replace lower arm bolts and washers, or something along those lines. Maybe you should ask for that.
OK, so car alignment noob here. How can I tell if my car is OoA short of it mis-behaving or tires wearing out. I've noticed a "feeling" when driving lately of more rolling resistance, and potentially higher Wh/mi values. The feeling is almost like the feeling you get when driving an old 4WD vehicle on dry pavement.
The manual says tire rotation at 5K miles. I am perhaps half of that.
The manual says tire rotation at 5K miles. I am perhaps half of that.
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