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Chevrolet Bolt: 55 Pre-Production Cars Made And Exceeding 200 Mile Range Target

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I am glad to hear that the Bolt is on track. The world needs more long range EV's, and especially needs more that come at at a price point that is accessible to a larger segment of the population.

I saw the bolt at the detroit auto show, and was not particularly impressed. It seemed more like the Spark EV 2 than an new product, very small, with very limited cargo room. GM makes it look much bigger in their marketing than it actually is. Even at the show, they had it up on a 1 foot tall platform to make it seem taller than it is, in comparison to all the cars around it that were on the floor. That being said, there will be lots of buyers for the Bolt. Even without a supercharger network, it will offer the range to be a true city car, allowing the owner to drive anywhere in their city without worrying about range, something that the current generation of Non-Tesla EV's cannot offer. The big problem GM is going to run into is battery supply. I have not heard anything about a GM gigafactory, and I suspect that they will not have the cell capacity to produce very large numbers of Bolt's if the car were to take off.
 
I applaud GM for walking the path.
On the other hand I warn people not to confuse Bolt with Model 3 or get their hopes too high.
Bolt is only ~10% bigger Spark. Forget 200miles EPA range for 30k without GF economy of scales.
It may be 200 miles in NEDC, Model S is 300miles EV according to NEDC and only 265mile EV according to EPA.

I'd guess Bolt will have ~40kWh battery that will offer ~200 miles top range when hipermiling and about 150 miles of day-to-day realistic range.

Model S is supposed to fight BMW 3 series. Bolt is fighting Spark.

You certainly mean Model Ξ, not Model S.
 
That's assuming GM isn't interested in making an attractive EV, instead opting to make a compliance car.

I'm leaning towards GM having good intentions. Though I'm not convinced GM has enough batteries in the short term, so something has to give; price, availability or specs.

I think LG has about 6 GWh of possible production on tap which is in the neighborhood of Gigafactory phase 1 (7 GWh). LG is ramping up their Michigan plant to full production levels for the Bolt which means roughly 2 GWh if it was all the vastly improved NMC v2 chemistry. That means about 50,000 Bolts if it was devoted to only Bolt production. LG has had chronic under utilization in South Korea. In comparison, Tesla will likely have around 12-14 GWh of production on tap in late 2017.
 
LG isn't supplying only GM, though. They have agreed to supply a number of companies, including VW/Audi, Daimler, Ford, Kia, Hyundai, etc.

Assuming all they have to work with is the 2 GWh from the Michigan plant, 20k Volts will absorb 340 MWh, and the remainder is enough to make 41.5k Bolts with 40 kWh batteries. Sure, that's a significant number, but if it costs 30k USD after incentives, they'll struggle to keep them in stock just in the US. Nevermind overseas markets.
 
Tesla, on the other hand, has a real world problem for range. Whatever the Model 3 is, it needs to be able to reasonably use the Tesla Supercharger network which is usually spaced at 120-140 miles apart. It also has to do it without charging to 100% every time, so the absolute minimum is likely 90% range to hit 140 miles while driving at a constant 65 mph. In order to do that, in the winter, with some battery degradation, we're looking at 205 miles of EPA range for 100% battery, so 90% of that for degradation, then 90% of that for the battery charge level, then 85% of that for winter leaving 141 miles of range. So a Model 3 has to be designed for roughly 205 miles of EPA range. This is what Musk means by 200 miles of "real world" range and also corresponds to the 60 kWh Model S.
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The number of superchargers is historically roughly proportional to the number of cars produced. If it weren't then there would be long lines at superchargers. By the time model 3 is out there will already be 3x as many Tesla's on the road as today and hence at least double the number of superchargers.
Look at the SF bay area for an idea of what happens in a world of more Teslas... Once the under construction superchargers are done you can drive from Carmel to past Sacramento without ever being more than 25 miles from a supercharger!

For the other manufacturers... They currently do "no charge to charge" and chargenow both of which I use (we have leaf, i3, and Tesla) but both of those have under 50% reliability* around here thanks to nrg, compared to 99% or more for Tesla. The others really have to pick up their game.

* as measured by my experience as defined by whether I can complete a 20 minute charge within 30 minutes of arriving.
 
LG isn't supplying only GM, though. They have agreed to supply a number of companies, including VW/Audi, Daimler, Ford, Kia, Hyundai, etc.

Yes, they're desperate for someone, anyone to buy enough batteries to soak up the capacity in their SK gigafactory. Even with all those supplier agreements, they haven't actually had enough actual orders yet.

Assuming all they have to work with is the 2 GWh from the Michigan plant, 20k Volts will absorb 340 MWh, and the remainder is enough to make 41.5k Bolts with 40 kWh batteries. Sure, that's a significant number, but if it costs 30k USD after incentives, they'll struggle to keep them in stock just in the US. Nevermind overseas markets.

Agreed. I think 35k or so initial, working up to 50k assuming some coming from SK at higher cost. It could be that Volt batteries come from SK and all of Compact Power's (LG) production in MI is Bolt to save cost at that point in time.
 
Let me know when the EPA designates it a 200 mile EV. The original Volt was supposed to get 40 miles EV range, and yet...

But Volt 2 will have 50 miles of range because GM understands that people like the EV side, and because they're trying to get their EREV model as BEVx.

Small car shouldn't have a problem getting 200 with the low average speed. No frunk because it's a small car. But small will help make it lighter and more efficient, at least for lower-speed driving. It'll be a long-range BEV but not a long-distance BEV. That's OK. Would rather have a long-distance BEV, but if Tesla comes in overpriced again Bolt could still end up at the top of my list to replace my car in 2019.

It's somewhat ironic to hear complaints about a 200 AER BEV because it won't be able to use an ultra-fast charging network. Funny how quickly people change expectations. Still, there's always the hope that GM signs up with Tesla to use the Superchargers. Highly unlikely, but would be awesome.
 
But Volt 2 will have 50 miles of range because GM understands that people like the EV side, and because they're trying to get their EREV model as BEVx.

Small car shouldn't have a problem getting 200 with the low average speed. No frunk because it's a small car. But small will help make it lighter and more efficient, at least for lower-speed driving. It'll be a long-range BEV but not a long-distance BEV. That's OK. Would rather have a long-distance BEV, but if Tesla comes in overpriced again Bolt could still end up at the top of my list to replace my car in 2019.

It's somewhat ironic to hear complaints about a 200 AER BEV because it won't be able to use an ultra-fast charging network. Funny how quickly people change expectations. Still, there's always the hope that GM signs up with Tesla to use the Superchargers. Highly unlikely, but would be awesome.

Tesla hasn't been overpriced yet. They have had a long published plan to make it in business and be a catalyst for EVs, and they are right on.

As for you thinking Bolt should be a choice for you, all I gotta say is, "You get what you pay for -- if you're careful" Be careful, friend.
 
When talking about range, we have to remember the #1 design criteria for the Bolt. This vehicle has to qualify for the ZEV credits as a Type III for 4 credits which means 200+ mile UDDS range. UDDS heavily skews to city range, not highway range. If you look at a 2013 Nissan Leaf's range, you see 83 miles of EPA 5 cycle range but 110.9 miles of UDDS range, which corresponds to about 75%. So the Bolt is likely to have 160 miles of EPA range, 210 miles of UDDS range. GM won't put in a bigger battery than necessary to qualify for ZEV Type III credits. They will put in the minimum necessary to hit that credit level.
Personally, I think this time GM is really aiming for 200 miles EPA (not UDDS). Judging by how GM is marketing it, there will be a lot of egg on their face if it doesn't get 200 miles of EPA range. They should have learned from the experience of the Volt 1.0's "40 miles" and the Leaf's "100 miles" that consumers will react negatively if you market range this way. Back then there was still the excuse that the cars were within the transition period of the new EPA ratings, but now there is no excuse.

The main goal of the Bolt right now seems to be an effort to call "first" over the Model 3 and something that gets only 160 miles EPA range will not be sufficient.
 
If GM pays for network expansion of DC fast charging then this could work out for everyone. I'd imagine it would be a pay for use system but in areas without Superchargers this would still help assuming Tesla makes an adapter.
 
If GM pays for network expansion of DC fast charging then this could work out for everyone. I'd imagine it would be a pay for use system but in areas without Superchargers this would still help assuming Tesla makes an adapter.
I think it is highly unlikely that GM will make more than a token effort at offering DC charging locations for the Bolt. If GM does anything it will likely follow the pathetic Nissan model of getting dealers to install them, which is not very useful.

For now, onlyTesla has the foresight and commitment to create a truly useful DC charging network, and I expect that to remain the reality for several more years.

I would love to be proven wrong
 
I think it is highly unlikely that GM will make more than a token effort at offering DC charging locations for the Bolt. If GM does anything it will likely follow the pathetic Nissan model of getting dealers to install them, which is not very useful.

For now, onlyTesla has the foresight and commitment to create a truly useful DC charging network, and I expect that to remain the reality for several more years.

I would love to be proven wrong

That would be my guess too. Without a robust DC charging network this car will be relegated to a day trip car. More than enough for almost everyone's daily commute but hardly good enough for the only car in the family for most people.
 
It originally got 35. The EPA rating is all that matters as that's the accepted standard measure, and what will decide ZEV credit amount.
Not sure those who talk about EPA rating of Leaf/ Volt '11 know the background.

EPA hadn't finalized their rating method when those cars were announced. When EPA actually did the test - they applied a correction factor to the 2 cycle tests to get the 5 cycle test number that threw both GM & Nissan off. Without the "correction" - they'd got the numbers being talked about.

BTW, to get the necessary credits you need the range numbers according to UDDS/LA4 (city cycle) - not EPA (unless that changed recently).

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It's really too bad it's only a four seater. I can't believe they are repeating the same mistake they made with the Volt.
The video shows a 5 seater.
 
Tesla hasn't been overpriced yet. They have had a long published plan to make it in business and be a catalyst for EVs, and they are right on.

As for you thinking Bolt should be a choice for you, all I gotta say is, "You get what you pay for -- if you're careful" Be careful, friend.

- If a car can't be a long distance car, then 200 EPA would be enough to do commutes and regular weekend trips.
- We also both prefer compact/small midsize to mid/full size.
- We don't need lots of passenger space.
- Based on our Volt experience comfort should not be an issue. I don't think the Bolt will be a hack, like the Spark EV.
- Based on the Volt's battery history degradation should not be an issue.
- Based on our Volt history reliability would be a key question, but based on following Tesla for 3 years, we'd be crossing fingers on them as well.
- Based on our Volt history we'd need to test out the heating system. In an interview about Volt 2 Andrew Farah said that GM considered a heat pump, but said that it needed some more development. I hope that they'll introduce it to the Bolt.
 
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That's assuming GM isn't interested in making an attractive EV, instead opting to make a compliance car.

I'm leaning towards GM having good intentions. Though I'm not convinced GM has enough batteries in the short term, so something has to give; price, availability or specs.

That's ... pretty naive. First of all, I wouldn't assume GM is even competent when designing a BEV. I'm sure they will convince themselves that they are building an attractive EV regardless of the specs.

Second, they (along with the rest of the ICE world), have made ZERO noises about building out or licensing a long range charger network, so they are continuing to regard a BEV as a city car. Maybe a suburban car with the longer range. So hitting the ZEV requirements (~165 miles EPA range) is about as far into strategic thinking as they are going to go...
 
If the Bolt is what GM claims it will be (I have to confess to some serious doubts) they will be aiding and abetting Elon in achievement of his goal for electrification of transport. For that we should be cheering GM on.

As for the Bolt competing with the Model III, forget about it. The Tesla brand now has far more cache than GM, the Bolt is an ugly spunk with a space-hogging battery layout, and at roughly the same price (and range if we accept GM's claims) what do you think consumers will prefer to buy?

And that doesn't even take into account the whole question of a supercharging network.

So I'm not worried that the Bolt is a threat to the Model III. It will be a lesser GM alternative, and there are countless examples of those up and down the GM line.