Chevrolet Spark EV

[GSP]

GM talks about lower reflected inertia at the driveshaft resulting in a better driving "feel." I don't think they made an efficiency claim here that I remember. I think it would be small.

However they have lower spin losses to friction with the lower motor rpm. Also, less gear meshes are needed compared to higher numerical ratios (one planetary vs two), so less losses there as well. I think the lower numerical ratio also widens the high efficiency sweet spot of the motor, with battery to drive axle efficiency plotted on the drive axle rpm vs torque curve.

Pretty good I think. Now they just need a 100 kWh battery and a larger car. :smile:

GSP

 

[stopcrazypp]

Chevy Spark EV priced at $27,495; will lease for $199/month

The Spark EV will come in at $27,495, undercutting the Leaf at $28,800.

The equipment levels and options are still unknown, but the base price certainly is competitive.

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/23/chevy-spark-ev-priced-at-27-495-will-lease-for-199-month/

 

[renim]

Daewoo Spark or a Nissan Sentra? One gives more better car than the other.

 

[Rifleman]

The Spark EV will come in at $27,495, undercutting the Leaf at $28,800.

The equipment levels and options are still unknown, but the base price certainly is competitive.

http://green.autoblog.com/2013/05/23/chevy-spark-ev-priced-at-27-495-will-lease-for-199-month/

That base price also includes destination, and from what I can gather, level 3 charging, making the spark EV an even better value.

 

[cwerdna]

That base price also includes destination, and from what I can gather, level 3 charging, making the spark EV an even better value.

What makes you think it includes it?

The press release says "Spark EV will be the first vehicle on the market to offer as an available option compatibility with the recently approved SAE combo charger for DC Fast Charging."

And, right now Frankenplug is near useless. Per SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 3, there are only 5 such chargers in the US vs. at least 160 CHAdeMO in the US (CHAdeMO Association). From the sounds of SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 10, 0 are for public use, so far.

 

[Rifleman]

What makes you think it includes it?

The press release says "Spark EV will be the first vehicle on the market to offer as an available option compatibility with the recently approved SAE combo charger for DC Fast Charging."

And, right now Frankenplug is near useless. Per SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 3, there are only 5 such chargers in the US vs. at least 160 CHAdeMO in the US (CHAdeMO Association). From the sounds of SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 10, 0 are for public use, so far.

A different article about the same topic I read implied that L3 is, and specifically stated that destination is included in that price. I will see if I can find it again.

I agree that the frankenplug is useless right now, but along with the same argument, Tesla supercharging capability is right now for people in most parts of the country (although I think that is going to change much sooner than the frankenplug situation)



Update : here is the article that specifically states that destination is included.

Chevrolet Spark EV Lease as Low as $199 per Month

 

[ggies07]

This car is so ugly and small. hahaha. GM thinks more Americans would buy this over the LEAF? Honestly now, Americans don't want less room, they're all about more more more. They should have created a better looking car.

 

[gregincal]

What makes you think it includes it?

The press release says "Spark EV will be the first vehicle on the market to offer as an available option compatibility with the recently approved SAE combo charger for DC Fast Charging."

And, right now Frankenplug is near useless. Per SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 3, there are only 5 such chargers in the US vs. at least 160 CHAdeMO in the US (CHAdeMO Association). From the sounds of SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 10, 0 are for public use, so far.

There are only 6 superchargers currently, but I'm guessing the plug won't be useless. We're early days here on infrastructure. When the first Leafs arrived there were about the same number of CHAdeMO chargers in the US.

 

[JRP3]

This car is so ugly and small. hahaha. GM thinks more Americans would buy this over the LEAF? Honestly now, Americans don't want less room, they're all about more more more.

Not always. Neither car is great looking but I prefer the Spark, and for my needs it's a better vehicle. Plus it's cheaper, faster, and has a better battery pack than the LEAF. In other words I'd take the Spark over the LEAF any day.

 

[ggies07]

Not always. Neither car is great looking but I prefer the Spark, and for my needs it's a better vehicle. Plus it's cheaper, faster, and has a better battery pack than the LEAF. In other words I'd take the Spark over the LEAF any day.

Well, I would assume a lot of you like the car because you are on a website like this, but for the masses? I don't see it.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And, right now Frankenplug is near useless. Per SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 3, there are only 5 such chargers in the US vs. at least 160 CHAdeMO in the US (CHAdeMO Association). From the sounds of SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 10, 0 are for public use, so far.

Plugshare says there are 368 DC chargers, and eliminating the singular public Frankenplug between Phoenix and Tucson, and the six Superchargers, that leaves 361 CHAdeMO with units getting installed pretty darn regularly.

Yes, there will be 100 or more Superchargers in 2-4 years, and 200 Frankenplugs in California in 4 years, but there will be tons more CHAdeMO in addition to the 361 today.

 

[FreeOfPge]

This car is so ugly and small. hahaha. GM thinks more Americans would buy this over the LEAF? Honestly now, Americans don't want less room, they're all about more more more. They should have created a better looking car.

This is exactly what the current auto industry and the oil companies both want, make electric = not cool! Too bad for them, Tesla has turned that tide. That said, the Leaf has grown on me a bit and the Spark looks like it would be fun to drive.

 

[fengshui]

Not always. Neither car is great looking but I prefer the Spark, and for my needs it's a better vehicle. Plus it's cheaper, faster, and has a better battery pack than the LEAF. In other words I'd take the Spark over the LEAF any day.

I agree. I'm hopeful that the Spark EV will make a great pairing with a Model X. Spark EV for the secondary driver, and the Model X for whichever parent has the kids/friends/family members. That said, we'll have to see how well it compares to the LEAF and the 500E when they're all available next month.

 

[mknox]

Not always. Neither car is great looking but I prefer the Spark, and for my needs it's a better vehicle. Plus it's cheaper, faster, and has a better battery pack than the LEAF. In other words I'd take the Spark over the LEAF any day.

I agree. I rented a gas Spark earlier this year and quite liked it.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Daewoo Spark or a Nissan Sentra? One gives more better car than the other.

Yes, the size class is smaller, but you can't ignore equipment levels (how fast the level 2 charger is, how much the DC charger option costs, etc.). Like JRP3 says, the battery pack in the Spark is much better than the one in the Leaf and the performance of the car is better too. It's not a bad attempt by GM.

 

[cwerdna]

What makes you think it includes it?

The press release says "Spark EV will be the first vehicle on the market to offer as an available option compatibility with the recently approved SAE combo charger for DC Fast Charging."

A different article about the same topic I read implied that L3 is, and specifically stated that destination is included in that price. I will see if I can find it again.

Thanks to someone on MNL Chevy announces pricing for the 2014 Spark EV — News – Car and Driver | Car and Driver Blog says:

A DC fast-charge option that promises an 80-percent charge in 20 minutes will be available later this year for $750. GM says owners can use the fast-charge option several times a day without degrading the 21-kWh lithium-ion battery, except there are very few public stations that use the Spark’s new SAE combo plug.

 

[stopcrazypp]

And, right now Frankenplug is near useless. Per SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 3, there are only 5 such chargers in the US vs. at least 160 CHAdeMO in the US (CHAdeMO Association). From the sounds of SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 10, 0 are for public use, so far.

I never get this kind of thinking. There were 0 SAE DC chargers in the US just a couple months earlier. And 0 CHAdeMO chargers when the Leaf came out. CHAdeMO also went through the same UL certification process.

Things have to get started somewhere. As of now there are 0 SAE DC capable cars. The Spark EV will be the first and more will be coming.

 

[cwerdna]

I never get this kind of thinking. There were 0 SAE DC chargers in the US just a couple months earlier. And 0 CHAdeMO chargers when the Leaf came out. CHAdeMO also went through the same UL certification process.

Things have to get started somewhere. As of now there are 0 SAE DC capable cars. The Spark EV will be the first and more will be coming.

Sure, and how many of them are coming, in what quantities and in what areas? Which of them is actually serious about EVs and DC fast charging in the US (specifically, putting $ where there mouth is in terms of DCFC deployment)? Compare that Nissan and Tesla.

SAE vs CHAdeMO - Page 2 was a Frankenplug roll call. This Spark EV is just a CA compliance car that's also going to sell in Oregon.

Out of the Frankenplug cast, it seems BMW is the most serious, but I'm unclear about how much they care about DC fast charging since they're selling the i3 w/an optional range extender ICE.

GM and the Frankenplug cast didn't have to put themselves into a situation where there are 0 public DC fast chargers if they'd gone w/CHAdeMO.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Sure, and how many of them are coming, in what quantities and in what areas? Which of them is actually serious about EVs and DC fast charging in the US (specifically, putting $ where there mouth is in terms of DCFC deployment)? Compare that Nissan and Tesla.

It's only 0 right now because of UL certification. You basically can't give public access to the chargers before UL certification is done unless you want huge liability issues. The ERL charger is in a publicly accessible area and the Arizona one is a public charger (but the SAE DC plug is not enabled AFAIK, probably for the same reason).

That thread already shows there will be 200 chargers installed in California (where a bulk of the first cars will go). I suspect GM will push from some in Oregon too. But all this comes down to UL certification being done first.

And Plugshare shows 165 CHAdeMO charging locations right now (this includes some "residential" ones, so some are probably not really CHAdeMO ones), which matches with the recent 160 public chargers estimate from Nissan in the beginning of the year (doesn't match with the 368 on Tony's slide, I suspect that counts multiple chargers for the superchargers since there's multiple bays, and might count blink chargers twice because of the dual connectors).
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/...st-fast-charge-network-in-washington-d-c-area

GM and the Frankenplug cast didn't have to put themselves into a situation where there are 0 public DC fast chargers if they'd gone w/CHAdeMO.

I've already gone through the reasons why they didn't stick with CHAdeMO: mainly single socket AC/DC, V2G support out of the box (CHAdeMO has V2H which was added recently, still no V2G capability yet). With the EU exclusion of CHAdeMO, the Combo connector is also the better choice for international harmonization.

 

[TonyWilliams]

That thread already shows there will be 200 chargers installed in California (where a bulk of the first cars will go). I suspect GM will push from some in Oregon too. But all this comes down to UL certification being done first.

I don't think that you actually read the "dissenting" posts. Yes, *IF* GM can convince CARB that their Spark EV sold in California and Oregon is NOT a compliance car (that's in the NRG/EVgo agreement), and there are TWO available Frankenplug charger manufacturers on the market, THEN there will be 200 Frankenplugs.... drum roll... in FOUR YEARS.

I'm not concerned whether GM meets that threshold or not, because I believe that in January 2014, when BMW releases the i3 to the USA, it obviously is NOT a compliance car since BMW is not one of the six Very Large Manufacturers. If it has Frankenplug, as everybody believes, then sometime in 2014 the NRG/EVgo deal will kick into gear.

One bad part of the California NRG/EVgo deal for the Frankenplug consortium... it doesn't kill CHAdeMO... actually, there will be 200 CHAdeMOs sitting right next to a Frankenplug in FOUR years.

And Plugshare shows 165 CHAdeMO charging locations right now (this includes some "residential" ones, so some are probably not really CHAdeMO ones), which matches with the recent 160 public chargers estimate from Nissan in the beginning of the year (doesn't match with the 368 on Tony's slide, I suspect that counts multiple chargers for the superchargers since there's multiple bays, and might count blink chargers twice because of the dual connectors).

I was merely quoted their data, but yes, I suspect your thoughts are correct as to the count.

I've already gone through the reasons why they didn't stick with CHAdeMO: mainly single socket AC/DC, V2G support out of the box (CHAdeMO has V2H which was added recently, still no V2G capability yet). With the EU exclusion of CHAdeMO, the Combo connector is also the better choice for international harmonization.

Ingineer seems to think that CHAdeMO might get some official sanction in EU, but obviously, the Germans will lock up their country to protect their German manufacturers who have all signed on to the Frankenplug Euro 3 phase Spec.

I can't wait to plug in my BMW i3 purchased in Germany that I had shipped over here... oops, it won't plug in to the "international harmonization".

The single socket concept was silly from the get-go, unless they wanted to do it like Tesla. That makes sense. Frankly, I'd like a more robust latch mechanism when 200+ amps are flowing, but I don't really like the "aircraft refueling nozzle" that is the Yazaki CHAdeMO plug (no, they aren't all that heavy and clunky!!!).

Please expand on the difference between V2G and V2H. You write like Frankenplug "had it first" when you realize that there really isn't a Frankenplug yet. Yes, CHAdeMO updated their firmware (without telling anybody) for V2H.