Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

[3Victoria]

If you need an EV now and like the Bolt, buy one. Too much hand wringing over theoretical problems.

 

[jgs]

The EV driver, on the other hand, can enjoy a leisurely dinner or shop and leave the car attached to the charger far longer than needed to recharge, denying others its use.

This has been extensively discussed in other threads. Three points:

1. The car notifies you on your smartphone when it's sufficiently charged. So it's possible for you to go move it then, without having to monitor it in person constantly. Of course, not everyone may want to bother, which brings us to
2. It appears the forthcoming usage-based SC billing may incorporate a "hogging the space" fee to provide incentive to move once finished.
3. In any case, So far Tesla seems to be doing a half-decent job of building out to accommodate demand.

 

[ItsNotAboutTheMoney]

As EVs become more common, refueling will become more problematic.

A common assumption seems to be that a “pump” will be available when the car arrives. That won’t be the case if Tesla succeeds in selling as many as projected. Waits to plug in will likely be common at peak traffic periods. People will be sitting in their cars (maybe for a good while) waiting for others to vacate a spot, adding to the total refuel time.

Tesla will continue to expand the charging infrastructure. The principle is very simple. It costs $150k to add a site with 8 plugs; reserve $x+y per car, where x is for infrastructure and y is for power. So, add one new site per 150k/x cars. For the large majority of sites it's building ahead of demand because it has to expand coverage, but at Model 3 scale (with the Model 3 having optional Supercharger access), they'd quickly be shifting to a focus on capacity.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I agree this is a major concern but I have seen evidence that better thinking is beginning to emerge.

This won't be easy and it's not a sure thing but I'm convinced that enough major players with approximately the right economic motivations are converging (rather improbably) in a way that can make this come together.

Yeah, at this point we can only cross our fingers and hope that given the large amount at least some of it will be spent in a way that makes sense looking further in the future (not stuck in the same thinking as the CHAdeMO backers). Just depends how much is wasted and how long it takes until it gets there.

Having CARB look over things on the CA side would give comfort if it weren't for the fact that the pool includes hydrogen (and other projects like buses). Currently CARB is still very pro-hydrogen and will easily allocate a large majority for that purpose (as is the case, hydrogen gets multiple times what EV chargers get).

 

[Jeff N]

Yeah, at this point we can only cross our fingers and hope that given the large amount at least some of it will be spent in a way that makes sense looking further in the future (not stuck in the same thinking as the CHAdeMO backers). Just depends how much is wasted and how long it takes until it gets there.

Sure, although I think the context wasn't really "CHAdeMO" backers (yes, it was limited to 125A) but rather that the non-tesla cars available in that timeframe did not need and largely could not use higher charge rates because of their small battery sizes which, in turn, was due to high battery cost and middling energy density. That's changing in the new generation of cars and so the thinking about what chargers are needed will change too although there will be some inertia from people who haven't thought about the issue as deeply.

Having CARB look over things on the CA side would give comfort if it weren't for the fact that the pool includes hydrogen (and other projects like buses). Currently CARB is still very pro-hydrogen and will easily allocate a large majority for that purpose (as is the case, hydrogen gets multiple times what EV chargers get).

Yes, H2 for passenger cars is premature and a waste of money and effort right now but I've accomodated myself to CARB's experimental rollout of a few dozen H2 wastestations.

If they try to spend large fractions of this VW money on a wider passenger car H2 rollout without first evaluating the first few years of results from their existing experiment I will personally go to every CARB meeting and tell them precisely where to locate those additional stations. EV advocate may well have to show up en mass and *advocate*!

 

[RubberToe]

EV advocate may well have to show up en mass and *advocate*!

Count me in.

RT

 

[mhan00]

As EVs become more common, refueling will become more problematic.

A common assumption seems to be that a “pump” will be available when the car arrives. That won’t be the case if Tesla succeeds in selling as many as projected. Waits to plug in will likely be common at peak traffic periods. People will be sitting in their cars (maybe for a good while) waiting for others to vacate a spot, adding to the total refuel time.

The thought always seems to be that we’ll be doing something else while our cars recharge, an option we don’t have with ICE cars. Since the ICE fill-up happens rather quickly, there’s little motivation to do something else at the same time. The EV driver, on the other hand, can enjoy a leisurely dinner or shop and leave the car attached to the charger far longer than needed to recharge, denying others its use. I foresee this being the case at the mall near my home where SC was recently installed.

People who always recharge at home won’t be affected, of course.

To your point, the Mountain View SC today:
Line for Mountain View Superchargers at 2pm today. Lots of cars are also choosing not to wait. • /r/teslamotors

 

[Jeff N]

Just making the point that when people talk about Nav, probably 99% of the time they are talking about a dedicated Nav (which doesn't seem clear yet if it will be an option in the Bolt).

Some clarity has emerged but we still don't have the complete answer. Basically, GM promised EV-enhanced navigation at CES in January but the existing pre-production cars don't have it and it may not be in the first cars out of the factory.

However, GM has re-asserted that they will deliver EV-enhanced navigation for the 2017 Bolt.... Details to be announced apparently in the coming weeks.

Early Bolt EVs May Not Have Promised Navigation - HybridCars.com

 

[EV-lutioin]

Talked to our local Chevy dealer in Chico, California yesterday and asked him if he was excited about the Bolt. He said, "I don't really know anything about it, Chevy has told us nothing, the first I heard of it was when someone came on the lot last week asking about it, so I decided I better go on the internet and see what it is. It's electric, right?" The he said, "I hope they will give us some training on it before it arrives".

Doesn't sound like GM is ready to sell many Bolts!

 

[GoTslaGo]

Talked to our local Chevy dealer in Chico, California yesterday and asked him if he was excited about the Bolt. He said, "I don't really know anything about it, Chevy has told us nothing, the first I heard of it was when someone came on the lot last week asking about it, so I decided I better go on the internet and see what it is. It's electric, right?" The he said, "I hope they will give us some training on it before it arrives".

Doesn't sound like GM is ready to sell many Bolts!

Hey, at least it sounds like he's not blowing it off!

As in:

"Bolt, what's a Bolt? Don't mind that, I've got a great deal on (insert ICE model here)... Let's go for a test drive... now I'll just need your license, social ,etc..."

 

[Jeff N]

Talked to our local Chevy dealer in Chico, California yesterday and asked him if he was excited about the Bolt. He said, "I don't really know anything about it, Chevy has told us nothing, the first I heard of it was when someone came on the lot last week asking about it, so I decided I better go on the internet and see what it is. It's electric, right?" The he said, "I hope they will give us some training on it before it arrives".

Doesn't sound like GM is ready to sell many Bolts!

No offense, but it doesn't surprise me that Chico is not among the first wave of dealers to get Bolt EV allocations. I think they will mostly be high volume Volt and Spark EV dealers in the San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco metro areas and perhaps in a few similar areas on the east coast. I'll be surprised if they deliver more than 400 cars by the end of this calendar year. That's just the reality of starting to first ramp up factory production in October/November. Tesla slowly ramped up the S and X first production also. Every car maker does with new car introductions.

 

[RobStark]

Talked to our local Chevy dealer in Chico, California

Doesn't sound like GM is ready to sell many Bolts!

It is Chico. Not San Francisco,San Jose, San Diego nor Los Angeles.

California median household income is $61,320
Chico median household income is $42,896

Fact is BEVs are more expensive than similar ICEv and wealthier districts have a higher adoption rate of BEVs.

 

[Zoomit]

I'll be surprised if they deliver more than 400 cars by the end of this calendar year. That's just the reality of starting to first ramp up factory production in October/November.

One person on another forum was told by a dealer that they would be on lot in early November. There're a number of reasons to be doubtful (1--it came out of the mouth of a car dealer) but it is another datapoint.

 

[GoTslaGo]

It is Chico. Not San Francisco,San Jose, San Diego nor Los Angeles.

California median household income is $61,320
Chico median household income is $42,896

Fact is BEVs are more expensive than similar ICEv and wealthier districts have a higher adoption rate of BEVs.

That being said, that dealership in Chico already has at least two people asking about it in a week in a relatively "lower" income area. Suggests underlying pent-up demand for lower priced, good range EVs.

Ultimately good for Elon's vision of transforming transportation, whether through Tesla itself or by prodding legacy automakers to make more compelling EVs.

 

[RobStark]

That being said, that dealership in Chico already has at least two people asking about it in a week in a relatively "lower" income area. Suggests underlying pent-up demand for lower priced, good range EVs.

Ultimately good for Elon's vision of transforming transportation, whether through Tesla itself or by prodding legacy automakers to make more compelling EVs.

It depends on the relative number of people asking about it in higher income areas.

Plus, how many tire kickers vs actual potential buyers.

 

[GoTslaGo]

It depends on the relative number of people asking about it in higher income areas.

Plus, how many tire kickers vs actual potential buyers.

Good question! I wonder what the Bolt interest is in higher income areas? Would we start getting into status issues?

Which reminds me of a question I asked way back when in a thread about San Fran's anti-wealth subculture and vandalism.

Would someone vandalize a Chevy Bolt or a Tesla Model 3? Guess we will be finding out in the next 2-3 years... (as we know, they are priced relatively the same)

 

[30seconds]

Good question! I wonder what the Bolt interest is in higher income areas? Would we start getting into status issues?

Which reminds me of a question I asked way back when in a thread about San Fran's anti-wealth subculture and vandalism.

Would someone vandalize a Chevy Bolt or a Tesla Model 3? Guess we will be finding out in the next 2-3 years... (as we know, they are priced relatively the same)

There is not a slew of vandals targeting nice cars in SF. Far far from it, next time you are here take a look at all the German cars parked on the street. I parked a nice A6 for years in the street and had exactly zero issues, as did all my friends (except for those who left items visible in the car).

 

[wdolson]

No offense, but it doesn't surprise me that Chico is not among the first wave of dealers to get Bolt EV allocations. I think they will mostly be high volume Volt and Spark EV dealers in the San Diego, Los Angeles, and San Francisco metro areas and perhaps in a few similar areas on the east coast. I'll be surprised if they deliver more than 400 cars by the end of this calendar year. That's just the reality of starting to first ramp up factory production in October/November. Tesla slowly ramped up the S and X first production also. Every car maker does with new car introductions.

I would expect Portland and Seattle to see some too. Washington has had one of the highest rates of EV adoption per capita in the US (behind California). I don't go into Portland all that often, but we go into Vancouver, WA to buy groceries and such at least once a week and I've been noting how many Leafs and I3s I've been seeing. I only see another Tesla about once a month, but I probably see 4-5 Leafs and/or i3s every time we go into town. The Prius is also the most popular car in Portland. There are legions of them.

There is not a slew of vandals targeting nice cars in SF. Far far from it, next time you are here take a look at all the German cars parked on the street. I parked a nice A6 for years in the street and had exactly zero issues, as did all my friends (except for those who left items visible in the car).

I know some people who have lived their entire lives in San Francisco but they are lower income and gentrification is forcing them out. One friend has lived in the same apartment for 30 or 40 years, but the building was purchased and it going condo. Those being forced out are pretty angry at the yuppies moving in. My friends aren't into property crime (they're more likely to do civil disobedience at a city council meeting) but I wouldn't be surprised if some of their neighbors who are also poor are taking out their frustrations on symbols of wealth they see on the street.

 

[McRat]

Talked to our local Chevy dealer in Chico, California yesterday and asked him if he was excited about the Bolt. He said, "I don't really know anything about it, Chevy has told us nothing, the first I heard of it was when someone came on the lot last week asking about it, so I decided I better go on the internet and see what it is. It's electric, right?" The he said, "I hope they will give us some training on it before it arrives".

Doesn't sound like GM is ready to sell many Bolts!

Nobody, not even Chevrolet HQ is saying when ordering will start yet. My closest Mega Dealer doesn't know. They had a dozen Volts on the lot the week the 2016 new edition was in the wild. They had Z/28's on the lot the week they were released too. They are a ZR-1 authorized dealership (rare).

Check with Keyes and Rydell, they will probably get them early.

 

[stopcrazypp]

Nobody, not even Chevrolet HQ is saying when ordering will start yet. My closest Mega Dealer doesn't know. They had a dozen Volts on the lot the week the 2016 new edition was in the wild. They had Z/28's on the lot the week they were released too. They are a ZR-1 authorized dealership (rare).

Check with Keyes and Rydell, they will probably get them early.

Blind speculation, but maybe it has to do with the Lyft partnership. That can change their allocation so it's not the same as during the Volt launches. And reading the article about Nav, it seems GM might not have all software ready at launch, so letting Lyft be the guinea pigs first may make sense.