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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

Discussion in 'Electric Vehicles' started by FredTMC, Jan 9, 2015.

  1. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    To be honest, Cleantechnica is less biased that fanboi-run Electrek. I'll admit that. But that's sorta like saying Japan was slightly less evil than Germany during WWII.
     
  2. stopcrazypp

    stopcrazypp Well-Known Member

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    "Not that I think the i3 is worth the cost, but the Bolt EV (even in Premier trim) shouldn’t be the same price.'
    This line stood out to me. This goes to my continual suggestion that the Bolt as GM designed it, is not seen as a premium car for which the price is justified (not even by this early buyer), which will be a problem in terms of sales.
     
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  3. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    While the BMW i3 33kWh has a superior claimed power-to-weight, it has lower performance than the Bolt. It has 33kWh of battery, yet less than 1/2 the range of the Bolt. And of course it's a lot smaller.

    The BMW i3 / 33kWh stripped (zero option) is $44,595 vs the Bolt at $37,495.

    If luxury is cupholders and badging, the BMW will always win at any price. If luxury is the driving experience? Shop around more.
     
  4. TonyWilliams

    TonyWilliams Active Member

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    Are we sure of that? How did BMW put the 94ah cells in the i3, where 60ah cells have been previously? I'm not suggesting GM is going to do this anytime soon, because their primary motivation is to make a relatively low-cost GM Zero Emission Vehicle with superior range to its competitors.

    GM famously stated that they were paying $145 per kilowatt hour now and $100 per kilowatt hour in 2020. It really PO'd LG when the data was released.


    GM actually told us that was going to be the limit, and that they would assess a higher limit in the future. Of course the battery can take more than 125 amps.


    160 A does not charge any 400 V battery at 80 kW. Neither does 200 A.

    The data that they are inaccurately providing is the maximum charge amps multiplied by the maximum battery voltage:

    200a * 400v = 80kW

    But no lithium 400 V battery can accept the highest charge rate at the highest voltage!

    So, the maximum charge rate will likely be somewhere between 70 and 75kW:

    200a * 350v = 70kW
    200a * 375v = 75kW



    You are making huge assumptions that just don't apply in every case. At 125 A, the GM Chevrolet Bolt EV will add 3 miles per minute while charging. If I need to go 210 miles to the next DC fast charger or to grandma's house, then I need to charge 70 minutes or more (depending on battery temperature, ambient temp, charger output, load sharing etc.)

    If that distant location is 250 or 300 miles away (which is very easy to be in the United States of America), I'm going to "fill it up" for two hours or so.

    Obviously, if you're in a charger rich environment like major metro areas in California, or in the Northeast, or the Pacific Northwest, sure, just charge enough to get you on your way. If you only need 30 miles of additional range, charge for 10 minutes.
     
  5. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    I think you meant "most 'green' or 'appliance' car people".

    If you believe the #1 feature of a car is the driving, then gearhead mags are better.

    There is nothing wrong with being an appliance driver. Most people are. It's why the Camry remains on top.
     
  6. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    Hey, speaking of negatively slanted GM articles! GM delivered 579 Chevy Bolt EVs in 2016

    Negative slanting is one thing, but the above article has 100% wrong info in it. Bolt production did NOT start in mid-December as stated in the article. It started in October, like it was being reported all along: Tweet Says 2017 Chevy Bolt EV Production Has Started For Otherwise Secretive Rollout - HybridCars.com

    Why should Electrek care about accuracy though. As long as it slams GM in one way or another.

    Also, the Volt had its best sales month ever by far, and they just gloss over it like some Tesla owners gloss over imperfections at delivery. Whatever, Electrek is anti-GM, so hardly surprising they don't get excited over the Volt's best sales month ever.
     
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  7. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    Dangerously close to invoking Godwin's law...
     
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  8. scaesare

    scaesare Well-Known Member

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    #4328 scaesare, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
    Quite frankly, I'll re-state something I said about the Bolt here at the outset:

    I'm glad to see another major manufacturer offer a long-range EV at a competitive price.

    I understand some of the criticisms (concern about DCFC infrastructure, size, styling, lack of confidence in GM, etc...)... but many of them are just as subjective as they are objective.

    I sincerely hope GM is serious about EV's long term, and manages to not trip over it's own feet rolling them out, and they sell a boatload of them. It would be great to have them so pleasantly surprised that they take a close look at their plans and revise them for the better going forward.

    I kinda bet that's what Elon would want as well.
     
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  9. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    For EV Sites, Godwin's Law is dwarfed by Nader's Law:

    "In every discussion about automobiles, it will eventually degrade into the topic of General Motors Sucks",
     
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  10. TexasEV

    TexasEV Well-Known Member

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    Maybe because it has an ICE?
     
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  11. jgs

    jgs Active Member

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  12. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    No, because it's a GM. If Electrek was concerned about ICE, they would have really trashed the new Toyota Prius Prime.

    Here's what they said about the 10.6 second 0-60 Prius Prime, which needs gasoline to get advertised performance. It cannot run on EV power at full advertised HP, and it's EV-only range is 22 miles on the first EPA submission:

    "While the Toyota Prius has had its fair amount of success, the dazzling Prius Prime will aim to be the customer’s top choice for a plug-in hybrid with its attractive $27,100 price tag (before incentives) and very impressive 124 MPGe.

    While some of us might wish it was a full-blown electric vehicle, Toyota’s upcoming Prius Prime is sure to draw attention and give drivers their first exposure to what driving a car with an electric drivetrain is like. Further, the Prius Prime will operate very similar to the Chevy Volt, and with all of the positive feedback out there about the Volt, we can anticipate around the same, if not more, interest for the Prime. Especially given Toyota’s long track record of producing long-term, reliable vehicles."

    How is a car that is slower than it's ICE counterpart going to "give drivers their first exposure to what driving a car with an electric drivetrain"?

    Are EV's lethargic? All Priuses are.
     
  13. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    Production started in October. It's most likely a Captured Test Fleet car. Few people outside GM call it a Bolt EV, which is the correct model name. Sort of like Ampera and Ampera-e.
     
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  14. JRP3

    JRP3 Hyperactive Member

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    Yeah that really sounds like anti GM rhetoric :rolleyes:
     
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  15. McRat

    McRat Well-Known Member

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    #4335 McRat, Jan 5, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
    I read it this way:

    "Further, the Prius Prime will operate very similar to the Chevy Volt, and with all of the positive feedback out there about the Volt, we can anticipate around the same, if not more, interest for the Prime."

    No. A Prius Prime does not operate in a similar fashion to a Volt. One has a big EV motor and the other a small one. One has full power only during EV operation, the other full power only under gasoline operation. One has 53 miles of honest EV range, the other has 22 miles as long as drive like grandma, otherwise the gas engine comes on.

    Let's reword it:

    "Further, the Mitsubishi i-MiEV will operate very similar to the Tesla Model S, and with all the positive feedback out there about the Model S, we can anticipate around the same, if not more, interest in the i-MiEV".

    I see both sentences as a joke. The i-MiEV screams econobox when you push the pedal as do all Priuses up to and including the Prime.
     
  16. Jeff N

    Jeff N Active Member

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    The main electric motor in the Prius Prime has a different gear ratio to the wheels than the gas engine. It is something like 10.5:1 from memory so its torque gets multiplied more. The smaller motor can also used in parallel now with a good but less torque multiplying ratio. This can launch the car at slower speeds better than one might think just from looking at gas engine vs electric motor specs.

    I think Toyota has done a good job balancing things given the assumption of a 8.8 kWh pack.
     
    • Informative x 1
  17. 3Victoria

    3Victoria Active Member

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    Boy, for someone that bashes Tesla repeatedly, you sure are sensitive about perceived bashing about GM/Bolt. This is, as many have reminded you, a Tesla forum. Whether a reader comes away with "GM sucks, Tesla rules" is up to that reader, I don;t think that article is particularly slanted -- I think you are too sensitive to criticisms of the Bolt.

    There is lots of space for Teslas and Bolts, Volts and all the other cars. For some the Bolt is a perfect fit. I leave that decision up to each person. Can't believe this discussion has gone on for 217 pages!
     
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  18. Saghost

    Saghost Well-Known Member

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    It's not central to your point and is a little off topic, but as far as I know the motors in the Prime are plenty powerful enough - the problem is they still didn't give it a big enough battery pack, and energy biased chemistries just can't deliver large C rates safely, so the car's EV output is limited by the battery pack. All Priuses have substantial electric motors, which they perhaps ironically are only able to use to their full potential when the ICE is on and running hard.
     
  19. ItsNotAboutTheMoney

    ItsNotAboutTheMoney Well-Known Member

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    Here's the paragraph that precedes the Ladogaboy's positive comments about the car itself, with my added emphasis :

    Here's that critical paragraph again with my added emphasis:

    Positives on the car, negatives of the rest of the system.
    If it wanted to it could have criticized GM specifically on the distribution and dealerships, but in that negative paragraph it treats those issues as a result of third parties, and does _not_ blame GM. In fact it does not even _name_ GM and sees it as a general problem for the other manufacturers that are trapped in the franchise system.

    If you or Ladogaboy or Ladogaboy's friend are reading "GM sucks" from that article, then I think you are letting bias or defensiveness get in the way of comprehension.
     
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  20. bro1999

    bro1999 Active Member

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    The Woz has spoken. Basically says the Bolt is better than a Tesla in every way for him except the lack of supercharging. :cool:

    Adding in the "Who gives a **** what this guy thinks?!" criticisms ahead of time so the zealots don't have to. You're welcome.
    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
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