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Chevy Bolt - 200 mile range for $30k base price (after incentive)

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This is exactly what people were trying to point out when comparing these "networks" to the SC network.
...Then there is the Supercharger Network vs the Nonexistent CCS American network

From earlier in the thread, I think the point being made 2 years ago was that SC sites outnumbered CCS sites, which is no longer true, not a possible communication error involving a new car model, or possible problem with a site.

When you search Plugshare, you will notice complaints at various CHAdeMO/CCS sites. While SCs are not immune to this, it does appear there are less problems when the MFR controls both the vehicle and the refueling infrastructure.
 
From earlier in the thread, I think the point being made 2 years ago was that SC sites outnumbered CCS sites, which is no longer true, not a possible communication error involving a new car model, or possible problem with a site.

When you search Plugshare, you will notice complaints at various CHAdeMO/CCS sites. While SCs are not immune to this, it does appear there are less problems when the MFR controls both the vehicle and the refueling infrastructure.

I argued on several occasions that the issue went beyond the number of plugs, as you've pointed out in your second point. It's difficult to have an efficient or reliable network when they're owned by multiple companies, placed in a fashion that benefits each companies planned roll out, and when there is only one plug per unit.

Of course, there is also fact that most of the CCS stations aren't actually placed in a way that benefits BEVs with range of 200+ miles.
 
I argued on several occasions that the issue went beyond the number of plugs, as you've pointed out in your second point. It's difficult to have an efficient or reliable network when they're owned by multiple companies, placed in a fashion that benefits each companies planned roll out, and when there is only one plug per unit.

Of course, there is also fact that most of the CCS stations aren't actually placed in a way that benefits BEVs with range of 200+ miles.

Until last month, there were no EVs that could benefit from 100 mile spacing on non-proprietary charge sites or accept over 50 kW.

We are now looking at what had to change to get the 2012 Model S to be transcontinental, except in a much more complex fashion.

If an auto mfr follows a defined association standard such as CHAdeMO or CCS, they need it to be compatible with all existing and future brands and models of cars, and all existing and future charging equipment suppliers.

There are only 2 possible fixes for this.

1) Time - Standards become more robust over time. Developer's toolkits improve, poor software/hardware suppliers fall off the earth.

2) Every company go 100% locked proprietary. This is an immediate fix for their cars, but is actually a terrible solution with the potential of slowing wide acceptance of long range EVs.

I do get a kick out of folk who argue that ICE engines use 7 grades of gasoline and 6 grades of diesel in the US. They just seem to forget that ANY gasoline car can run ANY kind of gasoline until the right kind is found (except E85 which is rare), but even still, E85 can run in some modern cars short distances in closed loop. Yes Virginia, you can run unleaded 87 octane w/ethanol in a 1970 11.25:1 Big Block that requires 94 octane of leaded pure gasoline with no ethanol. You just limp along at 1/4 throttle until you get somewhere that has premium and sells additives.

EVs are a little different. There is only one kind of 'fuel' everything can use, which is J1772 AC (adapters for some). Virtually everybody does >90% of their charging at home or work (many 100%), but remote locations must EXACTLY match their car, and have over 3 times the equipment to service the same volume as a liquid fuel station requires.
 
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Until last month, there were no EVs that could benefit from 100 mile spacing on non-proprietary charge sites or accept over 50 kW.

We are now looking at what had to change to get the 2012 Model S to be transcontinental, except in a much more complex fashion.

If an auto mfr follows a defined association standard such as CHAdeMO or CCS, they need it to be compatible with all existing and future brands and models of cars, and all existing and future charging equipment suppliers.

There are only 2 possible fixes for this.

1) Time - Standards become more robust over time. Developer's toolkits improve, poor software/hardware suppliers fall off the earth.

2) Every company go 100% locked proprietary. This is an immediate fix for their cars, but is actually a terrible solution with the potential of slowing wide acceptance of long range EVs.

I do get a kick out of folk who argue that ICE engines use 7 grades of gasoline and 6 grades of diesel in the US. They just seem to forget that ANY gasoline car can run ANY kind of gasoline until the right kind is found (except E85 which is rare), but even still, E85 can run in some modern cars short distances in closed loop. Yes Virginia, you can run unleaded 87 octane w/ethanol in a 1970 11.25:1 Big Block that requires 94 octane of leaded pure gasoline with no ethanol. You just limp along at 1/4 throttle until you get somewhere that has premium and sells additives.

EVs are a little different. There is only one kind of 'fuel' everything can use, which is J1772 AC (adapters for some). Virtually everybody does >90% of their charging at home or work (many 100%), but remote locations must EXACTLY match their car, and have over 3 times the equipment to service the same volume as a liquid fuel station requires.

But all DCFC are accomplishing the same thing - getting a specified high DC Voltage to the car with controlled feedback from the car. That means most of the requirements for DCFC are the same for all formats, only the connector and the chips for communication are different.

You're already seeing a lot of CCS/CHAdeMO stations installed, and there's no reason that can't continue indefinitely (or even become CCS/CHAdeMO/Supercharger if Tesla allows it.)

There was never a victor between DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RAM - because manufacturers quickly realized they could build drives that did all three for only a little more than a drive that did any one. As a result, all three types of media remain on the market.

Your example is flawed - running a modern high compression engine on low octane may be fairly safe, but if it has lead or sulfur it'll kill the cat very quickly. There are certainly gasoline and diesel "universal donors" and "universal recipients" like in blood, but there can also be serious consequences to even a single tank of the wrong fuel.
 
Or just make an out and back route.

Thank you kindly.

To do absolute EV range testing, you need a reasonably short closed course with at least 120v available minimum, or a tow truck.

I could have sworn it was done at Cal Speedway but I do not remember who I was talking to. It did not seem important at the time.
But all DCFC are accomplishing the same thing - getting a specified high DC Voltage to the car with controlled feedback from the car. That means most of the requirements for DCFC are the same for all formats, only the connector and the chips for communication are different.

You're already seeing a lot of CCS/CHAdeMO stations installed, and there's no reason that can't continue indefinitely (or even become CCS/CHAdeMO/Supercharger if Tesla allows it.)

There was never a victor between DVD-R, DVD+R and DVD-RAM - because manufacturers quickly realized they could build drives that did all three for only a little more than a drive that did any one. As a result, all three types of media remain on the market.

Your example is flawed - running a modern high compression engine on low octane may be fairly safe, but if it has lead or sulfur it'll kill the cat very quickly. There are certainly gasoline and diesel "universal donors" and "universal recipients" like in blood, but there can also be serious consequences to even a single tank of the wrong fuel.

I'm not talking about running 10 gallons through it. Like 1 gallon to get it started and moved to a gas station.

Interface incompatibility for a 0 mile EV requires a tow truck. Compatibility is critical.

DVDs do not come into play, and will be gone in a few years, and DVD players suck at Blueray. We cannot afford to replace all the EV infrastructure every 10 years and still make affordable EVs.
 
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When folks ask me how long it takes to charge my car, I say about 20 seconds. I plug it in at work or home and that takes no time at all. When I unplug it, I have plenty of range to get where I need to go.

EVs are a little different. There is only one kind of 'fuel' everything can use, which is J1772 AC (adapters for some). Virtually everybody does >90% of their charging at home or work (many 100%), but remote locations must EXACTLY match their car, and have over 3 times the equipment to service the same volume as a liquid fuel station requires.

Chargepoint demoed Level 3 charge pumps that can support 3 different standards so you could have CCS/CHAdeMO/Supercharger pumps at up to 400KW. I think that will be the way folks ultimately go. I would like to see 10 of these in every rest stop off an Interstate. This would largely level the playing field with ICE cars.
 
>
There are 23 CCS stations grouped in and around San Diego. It's why Californians see no big deal about CCS coverage. They are covering the state like leaves cover the ground in Autumn. [McRat]

I see huddled masses yearning to be free.
--
DCFC (1&2) - DC Combo .png
 
>> and the climate system set to 72 degrees [C&D road test]

> Thereby rendering the whole test moot. [wycolo]

Leave the peripherals OFF and make it a more genuine test of vehicle range that can then be compared to other regions, other climates.
--
 
I have actually found it possible to drive out and back in the real world.
You are forgetting that they (presumably) drove the battery to empty but did not know how far that would be. If you don't know the total distance, how do you set the half-way mark ? LOL

If you can figure that out, I owe you a beer. And you only get one drive.
 
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You are forgetting that they (presumably) drove the battery to empty but did not know how far that would be. If you don't know the total distance, how do you set the half-way mark ? LOL

If you can figure that out, I owe you a beer.

Cool. Drive out 40% of the predicted range, and back (80% total). Drive back out 40% of predicted remaining range, and back (96% total). Drive out 40% of predicted remaining range, and back (99%). Continue the diminishing distance out and back until you run out of juice. At that point you will be close to the starting point, and know the total distance.

I prefer red ales.

Thank you kindly.
 
Cool. Drive out 40% of the predicted range, and back (80% total). Drive back out 40% of predicted remaining range, and back (96% total). Drive out 40% of predicted remaining range, and back (99%). Continue the diminishing distance out and back until you run out of juice. At that point you will be close to the starting point, and know the total distance.

I prefer red ales.
It's a clever solution, and I am happy to pay up.
However, you risk running out of juice at any point along your path and the risk you will not make it home increases with each cycle. In fact, the likelihood that the battery will reach empty just as you pull into home is vanishingly small. So this approach can diminish the one-way error but will almost certainly not give you an accurate answer.

You would be better off driving say 50 miles and 50 miles back and noting the kWh consumed, then normalizing the distance for the usable battery capacity. Presuming you know the usable capacity that is, since GM is playing coy with that information. Please don't try this at home -- the police frown on motorists driving 75 mph on local streets, or coasting down to turn-around speeds on the highway.

Now I'm wondering ... did C&D actually drain the battery and then tow the car to a charger ?
 
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